But Howard, to be fair, you need to add that 'good cost' to the
Ds/Symph/MCA set up as well.
Scott said, referring to
Avid,
>'By God, we're mediocre and overpriced and that's our
future!'<
ROFLMAO
;-))
PS:
In all fairness you must include
the full hardware required to do a suite as nice as a DS suite when you
consider the price of FCP. I know you can FCP on a laptop but that is pretty
miserable compared to a suite.
It is not just $1000 for the FCP
software. They do NOT give away G5s! And quality monitors, waveforms
[perhaps], audio gear etc,etc really matter and even if we built a FCP HD
suite we figure we would spend at least $20,000-$30,000 to "do
it right"
Of course since we have much of
the infrastructure already as many DS owners do, then we could just switch
it all over to an FCP system with a new Mac and keep going.
Howard
From: owner-ds(at)Softimage.COM [mailto:owner-ds(at)Softimage.COM]
On Behalf Of Scott Witthaus
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 10:08 AM
To: DS(at)Softimage.COM
Subject: Re: RE : AW: The stone age DS
OK, this thread brings me up from the lurk... a DS user since v1 - v5,
beta tester, poster boy, etc.,...I have been arguing this topic on various
Avid boards.
Avid is a company that is facing extraordinary challenges. For the
first time in its corporate history, the Avid has real competition at all
levels of its product line from Final Cut Pro. The company's product line is
confusing and overlaps, multiple platform development takes away focus from
feature development, and of course the ancient and whacked out price
structure that the company continues to charge. Oh, and the little fact that
30% of the value of the company disappeared in one day about 3 weeks ago.
Yep, extraordinary challenges.
Final Cut over DS? Final Cut over Symphony? Final Cut over Adrenaline?
The fact of the matter is a $999 piece of software can do a large percentage
of what a $80,000 Symphony can do. Add a few more options to the system and
it starts cutting into some of the things DS does. It was almost comical
when an Avid rep sent me a bid for an adrenaline that was about 3 times
higher than a full blown FCP suite and tried to tell me that MCA was Avid's
answer for FCP. Talk about a switch!
For many smaller shops (like mine and Ricks) these are HUGE decisions,
and we weigh the cost versus features/power versus speed issue very
carefully. But when the costs start to get so far apart, you start saying
'well, I can live without that' or 'there is another shop in town I can get
that process done at when the rare occasion arises'. Luckily I have
Thoughtstream Media (Woody Sherman) next door with that shiny new DS
Nitris!! Most of my finishing workflow goes thru that DS as it is the best
tool for the job.
Avid has yet to wake up to this. "But we are Avid...c'mon people,
Avid!" is the marketing strategy now, it seems. Yeah, so...If any of you
were at the NAB pre-show get together from Avid at the Hard Rock, the
announcement of a $90,000 Symphony Nitris box went over like a lead balloon.
Equal to the mood Lucas Wilson and I found when we wondered in to the DS
dinner at Yolis. Avid is stuck in the middle, and really has no easy
answers. The mid-range of this business is the worst place to be. No volume,
no big markup. ouch. DS is the product that could be the easiest to consider
'hi-end' but the company will not focus or truly invest in it. Get rid of DS
and you are telling the market 'by god, we're mediocre and overpriced and
thats our future!'. Hopefully there is a hybrid out there that might satisfy
both Symph and DS groups...but what do you charge and is it far enough ahead
of FCPHD for people like Rick and I to consider it. And FCP keeps getting
better and better at $999...
IMHO Avid is at a crossroad where some very fundamental changes need to
be made. The world has changed around them so fast, and they have yet to
make a move. Maybe that news market IS the place to be!
my humble 2 cents.
On Aug 9, 2005, at 10:55 AM, Gregory, Ryan wrote:
Don?t forget, smoke only has 1 undo. Now that?s
crazy!
On 8/9/05 10:36 AM, "Serge Verreault"
<sverreault(at)s29post.com> wrote:
BTW did you know that on a
Flame or Smoke, there?s no Softness on the wipes!!!!! (No
kidding!)
Ok they do have many other
powerful features, but not this one?.
( Ok I?m willing to trade
softness on wipes for 3D compositing!!!)
-----Message d'origine-----
De :
owner-ds(at)Softimage.COM [mailto:owner-ds(at)Softimage.COM] De la part de
Rune Holm
Envoyé : August
9, 2005 4:02 AM
À :
DS(at)Softimage.COM
Objet : SV: AW:
The stone age DS
Good for you Rick. I am a facility owner and
operator myself and for me going FCP would be the same as closing down
my buisness. Different clients different needs. It would be nice with a
Boxster though.
I think you are missing the point when you
say:
"in my mind, that is what Flame, AE, Shake etc is
for."
Many DS users have been competing with flame and
doing so very well for a long time but when the fx side of the swiss
army knife isn't getting any sharper release after release it starts to
become a little difficult.
Good luck whatever you decide to do.
Rune
-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra:
owner-ds(at)Softimage.COM [mailto:owner-ds(at)Softimage.COM]På vegne af
Dsderanged(at)aol.com
Sendt: 8. august
2005 20:38
Til:
DS(at)Softimage.COM
Emne: Re: AW: The
stone age DS
Sorry to be late on this thread but I gotta
chime in.
As a early purchaser ( Ver 1.0 / Single Stream )
of DS, I liked to say that when I first saw the DS, " I fell in love
with editing all over again." Like many here, I was a former
On-line > AVID guy and at the time, the DS combined all of the
tools we wanted. I purchased my system as a Softimage product
and was ready to break-away from the AVID line for good. But
then they bought Softimage. There were rumors back then that
they were gonna "kill" the product because it competed with MC and
Symphony, but quite the contrary, they improved the product and it
became their flagship. I had mixed reactions back then and still
do today. On one level, I felt vindicated that the system I
chose to build my business turned out to be a smart decision, but
frustrated when I saw the "bastardization" and "dilution" of the DS
becoming more like MC.
After following this thread for awhile, I
conclude that some of you are not happy where they perceive the future
of DS is headed. Many of you want more "high end" effects but in
my mind, that is what Flame, AE, Shake etc is for. ( I am sure
to get totally flamed by that comment I know. )
Remember, the biggest selling feature /
advantage to DS was being like " A Swiss Army Knife" and some of you
expect " A Chain Saw". There is bound to be a plateau for ANY
product to slow advancement and features. That is where new
products come in to compete.
For me, my biggest complaint is simply cost.
The cost to upgrade my 3.01 system to current was in the $80K
range. That is simply unacceptable to me. I am still doing
100% standard def work and FORCED to buy a HD box. Don't need it
( right now ). Rather than add new features, I would simply like
to see the cost come down.
Although not as elegant as a DS, there are
numerous 3rd party programs that coupled with FCP can and do compete
with the DS, AT A FRACTION of the cost. Sure, a few more steps
in and out.
Right now, in lieu of upgrading my DS, I am
considering replacing it with a 2nd full blown FCP suite for my
growing business, and a brand new Boxster S for me. ( Roughly the same
dough. ) And my clients will be as happy as an alligator at a
lakeside pet parade. They just love the Apple Cinema
displays.
So before I get trashed, I respectfully remind
you that I am a facility owner/operator and I put my money where my
mouth is. My .02¢
Rick at nakedeye
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