Here's what is broken:
Apply 3:2 contract. Apply 3:2 Expand. Let's say you get the resulting short
clip. So step into your 3:2 Expand and trim the tail of your 3:2 Contract.
Step back up to top timeline and notice the 3:2 Expand DOES NOT REFLECT YOUR
TRIM. This is incorrect behavior, a bug as it were. If there's media in the
container below for those frames DS should update the top timeline as well.
This is repeatable behavior, more common in larger sequences but
reproducible 9 times of 10 on the machines I've worked on.
The 'random slipping of clips' is a result of the issues I mentioned in my
last email, not random at all but annoying none the less. IMHO 3:2 Contract
should be modified so that it errs on the side of the extra frame, rather
than the current 'too short' situation.
Of course that would take a developer...
-Todd
Union
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ds(at)Softimage.COM [mailto:owner-ds(at)Softimage.COM] On Behalf Of
> spencer
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 21:17
> To: DS(at)Softimage.COM
> Subject: Re: 3:2 contract issue
>
> First off I said that the 3:2 Contract works. And it works like it should.
> It's the 3:2 Expand that has issues. For DS math / frame splitting reasons
> that Todd highlighted.
>
> Yes the 3:2 Contract works. Yes the 3:2 Expand works. Infact I love that
> we can do 3:2 on the timeline. It's a great feature.
> But DS does do some frustrating things sometimes that require manual
> tweaks. (mainly not updating the timeline/viewer and sometimes slipping
> footage when it wasn't asked to.) Frustrating and annoying for students
> who are learning about 3:2. It's hard for them to understand when they are
> doing something wrong or when DS is. With my example it's DS.
>
> Like I said in my list "if the clip's source is tape based then I have
> noticed that DS has less of these following issues" for the very reason
> you mentioned... there is an A frame for DS to work with.
>
> Try it with the 'laboratory' file. You say to always cut on the A frame.
> Sometimes that isn't possible. It requires the person that worked on the
> media before you to know about 3:2 to even know where the A frame is. And
> the 'laboratory' Clip was created without an A frame on purpose to show
> how DS pads that clip with a red frame. It's a great example for showing
> the issues. If you follow the steps I mentioned you most likely will get
> the same errors. If not... then count yourself lucky.
>
> Also you said that "in which case it's just impossible to remove 3:2 from
> such a clip and then replace it without losing a frame on the begining
> and/or end." It's not impossible... Thats the very issue I'm mentioning...
> It may seem impossible if everytime you create a 3:2 expand container DS
> doesn't update the containers end frame... leading you to believe that the
> shot cannot be corrected. It can after a while. But you need to know that
> it's just a quirk of the system.
>
> I'm not trying to attack DS. I love the system. I was simply putting up a
> list that new people could follow and learn about to expect within DS.
> Maybe make their lives a little easier. Also to illustrate that when they
> see and issue maybe it hasn't been something they are doing wrong... that
> others get the same issues they do.
> People expect that if they took the 3:2 out that DS will "on it's own" put
> the cadence and frames back in their exact places... and DS doesn't do
> this all the time. They need to understand what DS is doing and how to fix
> it.
>
> And since version 7.0 (maybe earlier) I have never seen it work on that
> 'laboratory' clip without manual tweaks. I could show you this error on
> over 12 systems and I could repeat it over and over and over again. That
> is far too many to simply trust that every 3:2 Expand DS does, goes
> exactly back into perfect frame matching cadence. So I check every 3:2.
> Sometimes it works... sometimes it doesn't. But I fix it and I move on.
>
> Teach Man to fish
>
> _spencer
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, Nov 17, 2005, at 20:02 America/Los_Angeles, Bob Maple wrote:
>
>
>
> Basically I don't trust DS to do 3:2 correctly... ever.
>
>
>
> Well, all I can say is that I've never had DS NOT do 3:2 removal
> correctly, ever. I've seen some other people complain of random problems
> but I have never been able to duplicate them or otherwise have ever had
> 3:2 compress or expand not work as expected.
>
>
> The trick is to cut your clip on an A frame at the head, always.
> This might mean trimming the original clip head back which would give you
> a few extra frames of heads.. Then, either make sure the end of your clip
> ends on a whole frame, or just arbitrarily trim it out a couple of frames
> (like I do, because it's never bad to have a little more than not
> enough!). I do all this usually by copying the original clip in question
> on a higher track in the same position, trimming out the head and tail as
> appropriate, and then contracting the copy.
>
> When you then expand the contracted clip, the cadence should match
> the old clip. Then you simply trim the ends back in to their original
> position if applicable.
>
> With file based material, this obviously could be a problem if your
> clip starts or ends on a mixed frame and you don't have any heads or
> tails.. in which case it's just impossible to remove 3:2 from such a clip
> and then replace it without losing a frame on the begining and/or end.
> That said, I've never gotten any material via file that I've ever had to
> remove 3:2 from.. but perhaps others do this a lot.
>
>
> | Bob Maple | bobm_at_burner_dot_com | [http] burner.com
> |
> | I don't want the world, I just want your half.
> | - They Might Be Giants
>
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