Re: 3:2 contract issue

[spencer <spencerhecox(at)sbcglobal.net>]

DS works even if your missing the A frame. DS pads the clip with red frames to make up for the missing A frame. No need do that part manually.


Again... 3:2 Contract works correctly.

_spencer



On Friday, Nov 18, 2005, at 11:14 America/Los_Angeles, John Heiser wrote:

> Busy day = late arrival at the list today.
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> If you don’t have an A frame, try putting the clip in a background container and add black at the head - however many frames you need to get to an A frame. Then step out and contract as normal. You’ll have to trim past black at the head but the artificial A frame will help keep things clean when you expand.
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> ____________________________
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> John Heiser
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> Avid DS Editor
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> ideas
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> Birmingham, Alabama, USA
<image.tiff>

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> From:owner-ds(at)Softimage.COM [mailto:owner-ds(at)Softimage.COM] On Behalf Ofspencer
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 11:17 PM
> To: DS(at)Softimage.COM
> Subject: Re: 3:2 contract issue
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> First off I said that the 3:2 Contract works. And it works like it should. 
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> It's the 3:2 Expand that has issues. For DS math / frame splitting reasons that Todd highlighted. 
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> Yes the 3:2 Contract works. Yes the 3:2 Expand works. Infact I love that we can do 3:2 on the timeline. It's a great feature. 
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> But DS does do some frustrating things sometimes that require manual tweaks. (mainly not updating the timeline/viewer and sometimes slipping footage when it wasn't asked to.) Frustrating and annoying for students who are learning about 3:2. It's hard for them to understand when they are doing something wrong or when DS is. With my example it's DS. 
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> Like I said in my list "if the clip's source is tape based then I have noticed that DS has less of these following issues" for the very reason you mentioned... there is an A frame for DS to work with. 
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> Try it with the 'laboratory' file. You say to always cut on the A frame. Sometimes that isn't possible. It requires the person that worked on the media before you to know about 3:2 to even know where the A frame is. And the 'laboratory' Clip was created without an A frame on purpose to show how DS pads that clip with a red frame. It's a great example for showing the issues. If you follow the steps I mentioned you most likely will get the same errors. If not... then count yourself lucky. 
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> Also you said that "in which case it's just impossible to remove 3:2 from such a clip and then replace it without losing a frame on the begining and/or end." It's not impossible... Thats the very issue I'm mentioning... It may seem impossible if everytime you create a 3:2 expand container DS doesn't update the containers end frame... leading you to believe that the shot cannot be corrected. It can after a while. But you need to know that it's just a quirk of the system. 
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> I'm not trying to attack DS. I love the system. I was simply putting up a list that new people could follow and learn about to expect within DS. Maybe make their lives a little easier. Also to illustrate that when they see and issue maybe it hasn't been something they are doing wrong... that others get the same issues they do. 
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> People expect that if they took the 3:2 out that DS will "on it's own" put the cadence and frames back in their exact places... and DS doesn't do this all the time. They need to understand what DS is doing and how to fix it. 
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> And since version 7.0 (maybe earlier) I have never seen it work on that 'laboratory' clip without manual tweaks. I could show you this error on over 12 systems and I could repeat it over and over and over again. That is far too many to simply trust that every 3:2 Expand DS does, goes exactly back into perfect frame matching cadence. So I check every 3:2. Sometimes it works... sometimes it doesn't. But I fix it and I move on. 
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> Teach Man to fish 
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> _spencer 
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> On Thursday, Nov 17, 2005, at 20:02 America/Los_Angeles, Bob Maple wrote: 
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> Basically I don't trust DS to do 3:2 correctly... ever. 
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> Well, all I can say is that I've never had DS NOT do 3:2 removal correctly, ever. I've seen some other people complain of random problems but I have never been able to duplicate them or otherwise have ever had 3:2 compress or expand not work as expected. 
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> The trick is to cut your clip on an A frame at the head, always. This might mean trimming the original clip head back which would give you a few extra frames of heads.. Then, either make sure the end of your clip ends on a whole frame, or just arbitrarily trim it out a couple of frames (like I do, because it's never bad to have a little more than not enough!). I do all this usually by copying the original clip in question on a higher track in the same position, trimming out the head and tail as appropriate, and then contracting the copy. 
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> When you then expand the contracted clip, the cadence should match the old clip. Then you simply trim the ends back in to their original position if applicable. 
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> With file based material, this obviously could be a problem if your clip starts or ends on a mixed frame and you don't have any heads or tails.. in which case it's just impossible to remove 3:2 from such a clip and then replace it without losing a frame on the begining and/or end. That said, I've never gotten any material via file that I've ever had to remove 3:2 from.. but perhaps others do this a lot. 
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> | Bob Maple | bobm_at_burner_dot_com | [http] burner.com 
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