RE: If not DS...

[Marc Fisher <MFisher(at)mvfinc.com>]

Scott, and of course, what comes with that FCp studio??? how about DVD autoring, how about Motion 2?? And soundtrack. but what's not said is Compressor & LiveType.

 

Now, i don't know about the rest of you, but I think you get alot more bang for your buck in the FCP suite.

 

ok, nice toys, blah blah blah. they do the job, and you can totally customize the effect. how many preset DS filters do you just apply and expect to be done with. you need to modify everything. and how about inter-operability? Quicktime based, means every program that is quicktime based can open the media. DVD autoring, Compositing, Audio app (even movie files). other NLEs. and you don't need to re-export--hmm. nice time saver there. what about the file names themselves? can you read what Avid's cryptic name means? when you name something in FCP, it's the same name you gave it. WOW. what a concept. Discreet doesn't wrap an entire clip into one file, it's all individual frames. that makes great sense too. loose one frame, not the entire clip. i can deal with that. then again, a linear editor does none of these things, they just work when you push the button. no HAL errors, no rendering, or Drives error. or capturing...

 

And why is there a firewire port on the nitris BOB and it hasn't been enabled yet? what are they waiting for, to offer as an upgrade $$$ deal?

 

Why is avid loosing some of it's greatest employees? how many developers are left in Montreal? i think they're all going across the street...but we'll leave that one to the imagination i guess...

 

I would like to be able to encode and burn DVD from the DS, but for all that $$ you spend, you get nothing extra. yet for a mere 10k, buy avid Xpress HD studio, and you get DVD authoring, Avid FX (which we all now is Boris FX) ,Softimage 3D(which actually does 3D), Protools LE, and even a nifty neat control surface, the Digi002, oh and you get Xpress Pro HD, and the Mojo. am i missing anything? WOW! and that is AVID's product/plan. so why do we get NOTHING extra to help with production needs??? well, maybe we get a headache, cause we paid too much, so we must be stupid or something. (ala Forrestt Gump)

 

true, DS v8 , maybe even 9, will come out, with new stuff, and maybe even 64bit (ala Microsoft at NAB 2005-not Avid), but how long are they going to have multiple systems that basically do the same thing? DS vs. Symphony, liquid vs. Xpress. etc. it won't be long till stuff is being discontinued. and it's not a passioned editor saying this, it's basic business sense. think about it.

 

DS will stop being and editing platform and become avid's answer (supposed of course) to the inferno(compositor). Stimphony will be the high end edit platform, liquid will dissappear, using the technology in the next version of Xpress, and maybe some hardware will trickle into Composer to help the adrenaline stop being SOOO sluggish.

 

them biscuits sure smell goood....mmmm...uh huh.

 

Marc

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From: Scott Malkie [mailto:ltc.vitc(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 1:14 PM
To: DS(at)Softimage.COM
Subject: Re: If not DS...

Well 
go ahead and try to outfit a suite, that is as versatile as a DS suite, with the 
console, VTR's, DA's, monitors, scopes, mixer, chair, phone etc. and has a 
workflow that allows you to output the same quality, in the same time for  
- as you put it "A FIFTH THE COST OF DS", no sir, it won't happen.  Been 
there, ran the numbers and honestly, there is only about a 20-25% difference in 
price between other "Pro-sumer" systems and DS if you are fitting from the 
ground up.

Ballparking here, and using list prices -

Assuming building a suite from the ground up:
Huge Media Systems RAID:  $10000.  (4TB)
VideoTek VTM-450E HD Scope: $17000. (HD/SD scope)
Sony 27" HD CRT: $27000. ($1k an inch or so, before cards)
Dual 23" Apple Cinema Displays: $3000. ($1.5k each)
Mixer: $2000. (01V or equiv.)
Console/Chair/Furnishings: $10000.  (Really can be as cheap or as pricey as you want here)
Miscellaneous: $7000.  (Power strips, racks, cables, fancy keyboard, decent speakers)

All that stays no matter what NLE goes in.
Now for the rest:

Apple Quad-Core G5: $3500.
Blackmagic Decklink HD Pro PCIe card: $1500. (oh, and IT DOES 4:4:4)
Apple Production Studio: $1300.
Shake: $3000.
Tinder for Shake: $650.
Sapphire: $1700
Automatic Duck I/O bundle: $800.
Photoshop: $600.
After Effects: $1000.
Anything I might have left out software-wise: $4000.  (codecs, speciality software like Traffic, etc.)

Now, some quick math tells me that just the FCP side of the suite works out to be around $20,000.

A DS, even before Tinder / Keylight / Photoshop is how much now? 

Even if we're talking about building from the ground up, an ultra-tricked out FCP suite is easily at least 1/4 the cost of a DS suite. And, in the hands of the right operator, can do some things substantially easier than the DS.  (Underlining, H.264, Native HDV come to mind...)

Of course, an all-in-one solution like the DS will always have speed and general ease-of-use advantages over a multiple software solution like the Apple Production Studio.  But is the small amount of time you save every day by not opening a different program worth the $100K+ more you pay for the DS?  Do you not think you'll use at least Photoshop and After Effects daily with a Symphony Nitris?  Talk about clunky - at least with 'round-tripping' I can use the same media - I can't imagine boucing stuff back and forth in uncompressed HD between a Symphony Nitris and After Effects.

Apple and their hardware vendors have constantly improved and innovated with FCP and Motion; Avid has taken a 15 year old interface and added 3 year old hardware to it.   Where's my SDI Mojo?  Where's my 4:4:4 Nitris?

Apologies for the length.  FCP is not a 'prosumer' NLE anymore.   Perhaps you mean to say 'Liquid.'

- Scott Malkie