RE: Linear?

["Hollis, Mark (NBC Universal)" <Mark.Hollis(at)nbcuni.com>]

There are good reasons for linear.

 

At the same time, as someone with feet in both camps presently (which is about to change) I really like some of the tools we have in the DS -- especially color correction.

 

I cannot change gammas using a standard TBC proc amp control in any of the linear suites that I work in -- and in one, I have no color correction at all (playback is from GVG Profiles, which are hard disk arrays that act as if they are Betacam machines to an editor), save through a GVG Kaleidoscope (no, not endoscope!) and that's pretty limited.

 

We get footage in all the time that has been bounced around so much by satellites that it just reeks of nastiness. On the DS, I can lovingly restore the right exposure, color correction, raise and lower gammas, restore black and white levels and clip to my heart's content. 

 

I can also have unlimited DVEs. Linear rooms are always limited -- even with pre-read. Actually I'm probably fibbing here, as I do have limits on the DS, in that I do have to render stuff and that takes time, but if I plan well I can usually really impress a producer.

 

But there are times when you just want to do a realtime preview for a producer who doesn't quite understand the concept of your proposal. Set it up and preview (VVV) for a producer in a linear suite and they totally understand. Scrub through a timeline on a DS and it's just not the same.

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ds(at)Softimage.COM [mailto:owner-ds(at)Softimage.COM]On Behalf Of Marc Fisher
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 1:57 PM
To: 'DS(at)Softimage.COM'
Subject: RE: Linear?

come on guys, you mean to tell me, to assemble a 46 minute (1 hr US Broadcast) show, it's quicker to do in Non-Linear (any flavor system)? you guys must be taking coffee/smoke breaks between each edit.

 

I've been a Non-Linear editor for 12 yrs. not linear, but let's try to be honest. if you have a show, that's offlined in Avid MC, xpress, anything that'll generate an edl, it takes at least an 8 hour session to flip through capture process on a NLE. then you can get to the real work of comparing your shots, frames, fixes etc. In linear, it'll take you about half the time to assemble the show. How about VFX drop Ins.? NLE= conform, capture, drop to timeline to match TC, output 1 at a time. Linear=load edl, insert shots, (with maybe the same time to swap tapes. maybe not)

 

the whole reason NLE is taking over for those of you who can't remember what linear is, is because its CHEAPER. 1 computer, 1 NLE, and mostly 1 deck. (some additional stuff) but that, even if you have 2 decks, it still doesn't cost what a Linear sweet and all it's equipment costs. how about it just works. there are exceptions, of course as always, but not HAL errors, no missing renders, how about taking 5-10 minutes to let the computer indexers catch up. some drop in sessions are done in less than that in linear. Clients aren't stupid. well, some are, but there ae also alot of educated people.. some do understand the time=money argument. 15minutes linear = 1hr NLE, but in 15 minutes you're done.. hmm...no contest there.

 

Now, in defense of NLE, try to Dirt fix -correctly- in linear. DS blows it away. how about composites..we all now that one, or inserting shots in the sequence and rippling, or changing shots out.......

 

they both have huge reasons for being somewhere, and like Gus said, there's alot of show that are still done linear, because it's faster at assembly & drop ins.

 

and some systems even do 4:4:4.....or 2k, but i guess we'll have to wait till NAB 2007 to see if DS will have that.....

 

Marc

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From: Jef Huey [mailto:jhuey(at)henninger.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:44 AM
To: DS(at)Softimage.COM
Subject: Re: Linear?

GFI MailSecurity's HTML threat engine found HTML scripts in this email and has disabled them.

For those so interested, try to find the book, "Jump Cut!: Memoirs of a Pioneer Television Editor".

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0786403454/qid=1133458755/sr=1-9/ref=sr_1_9/002-9846921-0427251?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

The description of editing "Laugh In" each week will make your hair stand on end.

Jef



Hollis, Mark (NBC Universal) wrote:

I know of one company in NYC that does a lot of linear work. If you are reformatting a show for syndication, it is actually faster than using a nonlinear suite because you do not have to digitize-digital cut. It's like the difference between edited and live-to-tape.

 

There are also a lot of directors who do live TV who cannot deal with non-linear suites. They have to see everything rendered all of the time and scrubbing through a timeline just doesn't do it for them.

 

For the kind of creative work we all do, I'm sure non-linear is the present and the future. But some prefer the old-fashioned system. I spent a lot of time talking with a very talented filmmaker about how great nonlinear editing is as well as linear editing to get something out right away. He had a six-plate Steenbeck that he preferred over all because of the tactile feel of film. He was perfectly willing to pay the extra for processing and opticals. I gather he may have changed to some kind of Avid for editing now, due to costs and the fact that the optical and processing houses have begun to dissappear all together.

 

The resistence to change is something I admire at times, because of the years of knowledge and experience these people usually bring to the process. Up until recently, I could easily schmooze with editors at NBC who cut their teeth in film. They had gone from that to linear editing and through a number of versions of that, then finally to a Newscutter. While he didn't resist change, his wealth of knowledge and history of broadcasting was incredible. There was nothing he hadn't seen tried out on air. He was one of the few editors who traveled to many different locations to cut feature and news pieces to be fed by satellite.

 

I used 2" Quad machines as my first on-air playback and record devices during the time when 3/4" U-Matic was being refined. I saw the introduction of Panasonic's Recam, M-II, Sony's Betacam, Betacam-SP Ampex and Sony's 1" formats (including Type B!) and have followed the format wars since then. Those who came before me are to be admired. Even if they don't trust this new-fangled stuff.

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael [mailto:m_thomas7(at)comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:40 PM
To: DS(at)Softimage.COM
Subject: Re: If not DS...

What sort of work goes into those rooms instead of nonlinear?, and why?

 

what sort of gear, back to 20 layers of digi-beta/D2 pre-read?

----- Original Message -----

From: Judy Ranelli

To: DS(at)Softimage.COM

Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 8:33 PM

Subject: RE: If not DS...

We have two.

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;-)

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JUDY

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-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ds(at)Softimage.COM [mailto:owner-ds(at)Softimage.COM]On Behalf Of Michael
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 7:26 PM
To: DS(at)Softimage.COM
Subject: Re: If not DS...

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People still edit in linear suites?!?

1998 was my last time in a linear room, how many linear rooms out there are still going?

----- Original Message -----

From: Judy Ranelli

To: DS(at)Softimage.COM

Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:24 PM

Subject: RE: If not DS...

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Hey, just make all the changes you want.  Then we'll ripple the list, hit auto-assemble, hide our eyes and pray.

;-)

What's funny is when I do edit in a linear suite, I'm reflexively looking for the 'save' button all of the time.

JUDY

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ds(at)Softimage.COM [mailto:owner-ds(at)Softimage.COM]On Behalf Of Ken Sirulnick
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 6:18 PM
To: DS(at)Softimage.COM
Subject: Re: If not DS...

I don't even want to get into H-Shifts.

KEN

----- Original Message -----

From: Murphy, Paul

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To: DS(at)Softimage.COM

Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 6:32 PM

Subject: RE: If not DS...

LOL - You got that right!!

That's how I punched a hole in a 1" master 15 years ago.  Young and cocky.  Now older and grumpy...err I mean wiser.  If I could only have an undo button for my life.

Murf

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From: owner-ds(at)Softimage.COM [mailto:owner-ds(at)Softimage.COM] On Behalf Of Judy Ranelli
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 4:11 PM
To: DS(at)Softimage.COM
Subject: RE: If not DS...

REAL editors don't preview!!!

;-)

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ds(at)Softimage.COM [mailto:owner-ds(at)Softimage.COM]On Behalf Of Paul Neal
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:06 PM
To: DS(at)Softimage.COM
Subject: Re: If not DS...

That's called PREVIEW edit... :P

On 11/30/05, Ken Sirulnick <kennitris(at)glueedit.com> wrote:

No UNDO

----- Original Message -----

From: Marc Fisher

To: 'DS(at)Softimage.COM'

Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:51 PM

Subject: RE: If not DS...

 

 i can deal with that. then again, a linear editor does none of these things, they just work when you push the button. no HAL errors, no rendering, or Drives error. or capturing...