Yeah, right.
_rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Rabiller" <guy(at)alamaison.fr>
To: <XSI(at)Softimage.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: OT:flowline response
>
> > ../.. Why would they get out showing their latest
> > piece of technology to the world without plan of
> > selling it
> > ../.. They only idea I have is they are
> > showing off because they want more contract
> > and probably sub-contract so THEY can make
> > watery stuff ../..
>
> I think you answered to your own question, and nobody can blame them :-)
>
> Why do you think people show their stuff at Siggraph ? What about ILM
> showing their Caricature, Flesh, Cloth, etc.. tools wich are not for
> sales, even for licensing afaik ?
> I think it's perfectly fair, they show their technology, if they can get
> more contracts, I would say "good move, congrats.". I dont understand what
> is wrong with this ?
>
> I do understand the frustration, however, when you dont have a R&D
> department or when you cant do it yourself. But creating such tools
> demands a huge effort and time and resources investment, and it is
> perfectly understandable if they want to keep it.
>
> In fact, they will surely make a lot more money by doing productions using
> their tools than selling the tools, and the more they would sale the more
> would be companies able to do what they are doing ( albeit talents and
> quality might still differe ), so why bother ?
>
> In fact, often the only serious reason that worth the effort of selling or
> distributing your proprietary tool, open source or not, is to get help for
> debugging and feedback, because a lot more users are involved, more
> different ways of using it, different needs involving different approach,
> new ideas. Your tool can then evolve faster, become very robust and
> complete. But you have to feel the need for this.
>
> > ../.. but for the bigger studios they can take the risk.
> > If they succeed using it fine if not then at least they tried it.../..
>
> Is it not what is happening with MPC ?
>
> --
>
> guy rabiller | 3d technical director (at) LaMaison
>
>
> Marc-Andre Carbonneau a écrit :
>
>>I knew I was going to walk on tin ice. ;)
>>
>>I totally get what you are saying. But at least you get to use it,
>>compared to now where we having nothing at all.
>>This way of thinking might not be good for small studios as you rarely can
>>afford to take such a risk with a software that would probably cost the
>>eyes off your head(can we say that in English) but for the bigger studios
>>they can take the risk. If they succeed using it fine if not then at least
>>they tried it.
>>
>>Then perhaps Scanline should look at how Pixar does it with Renderman. It
>>seems to be doing very good business?
>>
>>I don't quite understand why they went public with that information and
>>all about that Flowline software. They only idea I have is they are
>>showing off because they want more contract and probably sub-contract so
>>THEY can make watery stuff. What's your take on it? Why would they get out
>>showing their latest piece of technology to the world without plan of
>>selling it? It's not like it's a ILM conference at Siggraph or whatnot.
>>
>>MAC
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM [mailto:owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM] On Behalf
>>Of Guy Rabiller
>>Sent: November 29, 2005 8:59 AM
>>To: XSI(at)Softimage.COM
>>Subject: Re: OT:flowline response
>>
>>
>> > " ../..just sell it without providing support ../.."
>>
>>Without support is out of question, or you have to provide the sources.
>>This is mainly why companies do proprietary developments, for permanent
>>and fast support, and to not be bound by author's autoritative decisions.
>>( follow my eyes ). But if you have none - no source or no support - then
>>your investment will be unusable and wasted, sooner or later.
>>Look at Arete DNT..
>>--
>>guy rabiller | 3d technical director (at) LaMaison
>>
>>
>>Marc-Andre Carbonneau a écrit :
>>
>>
>>>Not sure if this is a good idea but...if they could document the whole
>>>thing and just sell it without providing support(apart from installation
>>>perhaps) then they would still make money but everyone would know that
>>>there is nothing they can ask the studio/company afterwards. We could
>>>resort to community of Flowline users for all questions/tips.
>>>
>>>I know this is probably something that might not be acceptable for lots
>>>of us but for some others this could be very welcome to at least get to
>>>try the technology.
>>>
>>>Then again, if all software companies start doing that, it'll be hell on
>>>earth with half-finished programs.
>>>
>>>My 2 cents
>>>
>>>MAC
>>>
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>*From:* owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM [mailto:owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM] *On
>>>Behalf Of *kim aldis
>>>*Sent:* November 29, 2005 4:55 AM
>>>*To:* XSI(at)Softimage.COM
>>>*Subject:* RE: OT:flowline response
>>>
>>>writing and building software is one thing. Documenting, selling,
>>>maintaining and supporting it is another. Selling software looks like a
>>>great idea for production companies until you actually start doing it,
>>>then you realise what a can of worms it is. The arrangement with MPC
>>>appears to be a little different to a straight sale and I can see how
>>>that would work but the whole selling thing, that I'd not be surprised if
>>>it didn't happen.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From:* owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM [mailto:owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM]
>>> *On Behalf Of *VR XSI Forces
>>> *Sent:* 29-November-2005 09:28
>>> *To:* XSI(at)Softimage.COM
>>> *Subject:* AW: OT:flowline response
>>>
>>> And I am sure it will be »no« for a long time ... probably forever.
>>>
>>> After those FAQ I can't imagine that Scanline will share its
>>> technology with the industry.
>>>
>>> MPC? I guess they will force a special cooperation which is very
>>> interesting for a future business plan ...
>>>
>>> Pure PR actually ...
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> *Von:* owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM [mailto:owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM]
>>> *Im Auftrag von *Wayne Williams
>>> *Gesendet:* Montag, 28. November 2005 20:34
>>> *An:* XSI(at)Softimage.COM
>>> *Betreff:* Re: OT:flowline response
>>>
>>> For right now it's a no I guess. Sure would be nice to rub my
>>> cursor on it though :D Maybe one day......
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> *From:* Meng-Yang Lu <mailto:ntmonkey(at)gmail.com>
>>>
>>> *To:* XSI(at)Softimage.COM <mailto:XSI(at)Softimage.COM>
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, November 28, 2005 1:25 PM
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: OT:flowline response
>>>
>>> So is that no? I just want to touch it... :-P
>>>
>>> peace,
>>>
>>> Lu
>>>
>>> On 11/28/05, *Wayne Williams* <w1343(at)comcast.net
>>> <mailto:w1343(at)comcast.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thought you guys might be interested in this response received
>>> from Stephan after asking about a possible port of Flowline to
>>> XSI:
>>>
>>> Judging from the overwhelming response to our recently
>>> launched web page, we should offer more details about our
>>> plans for Flowline. First, we want to thank you all again for
>>> such kind words and apologize for the group mail. We're still
>>> working on personal responses, but it will take some time.
>>>
>>> *FAQ*
>>>
>>> *I need Flowline for a show now. Can I get it?
>>> *Flowline is Scanline's In-House software and we are a Full
>>> ServiceVisual Effects house. We're open to working in
>>> cooperation with other companies, so please contact either
>>> Scanline or the Task Force with you're Fluid needs.
>>>
>>> *"How can I get my hands on this baby?"
>>> *Please send Scanline a reel. We're looking for the kind of
>>> passion we've seen in recent mails and we have some very cool
>>> work coming up here.
>>> www.scanline.de <http://>
>>>
>>> *Can I download it? Can I evaluate it? How much is it? *
>>> Flowline is not yet a commercially available software.
>>> Scanline is a Visual Effects Facility with a large R&D
>>> department but not a software company. Flowline is our
>>> in-house effects system and is currently being licensed by
>>> MPC. After this phase is complete, we are open to expanding
>>> our licensing circle, and you may possibly see a commercial
>>> release in the future. We are unable to give more information
>>> at this time, but we will provide updates to the mailing list
>>> as more concrete information becomes available.
>>>
>>> *Is there a beta program?
>>> *A beta program is normally designed to introduce software
>>> from a programming environment into a production environment.
>>> Flowline was born in production and has evolved to suit the
>>> needs of Scanline shows over the last 5 years. It is now being
>>> used in a large scale pipeline at MPC.
>>>
>>> *Is it, or will it be integrated/compatible with my favorite
>>> 3D Software or Render Engine?
>>> *Flowline is designed with an extremely open framework and can
>>> be easily ported. So if you are interested in seeing Flowline
>>> ported/packaged with your software or render engine of choice,
>>> please write to them directly about your request, as we're
>>> open to many future possibilities.
>>>
>>> *Does Flowline use outside systems or plugins?
>>> *Flowline's Framework and Effects System are 100% Scanline
>>> developed and owned. It is a complete FX system that
>>> seemlessly integrates with a 3D package and render engine, but
>>> external plugins can be easily attached to Flowline via the SDK.
>>> *
>>> *
>>>
>>> Again, thank you for your interest,
>>> Stephan
>>>
>>> ____________________________________
>>> Stephan Trojansky
>>> Head of Research & Development
>>> Scanline Productions, Munich
>>> +49 89 64 98 47 0
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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