Re: Why XSI Is Awesome

[Alan Jones <skyphyr(at)gmail.com>]

Consider you started this thread, the least you could do is read it, Mike.

What are your repro steps for the broken button? If you're after an analogy then how about you dropped £20 in London - now go pick it up.

I'd prefer to see time spent on fixing things which can be reproduced or that just were done plain wrong in the first place (material node).

Cheers,

Alan.

On 1/23/06, Mike Werckle <stumbly(at)gmail.com> wrote:

Halfdan--
I understand your annoyance-- I have to fix annoying things in my shots everyday. 

But the make it "more red" analogy doesn't quite work.  This isn't a situation of a client asking for an arbitrary cosmetic change.  This is a client asking for something that is broken to be fixed.

Imagine if I tried to submit a shot with something wrong in it, and I said "sorry this shot doesn't work, it's just too hard for me to fix."  That would be ridiculous. 

The same is true with the broken codec button in XSI.

I sympathize that your job is difficult-- but the point is:  the button is broken.

Mike

On 1/23/06, Halfdan Ingvarsson < hingvars(at)softimage.com> wrote:

Indeed. It's a bit akin to, say, if I were your client and I asked to you to fix a CG sequence you'd done for me by asking for "more red" and leaving it at that.

Happens all the time and annoys you to no end, doesn't it? Us too.

Clear, precise repro steps with all the information you can gather about your current setup, along with which observed circumstances seem to cause it, is what gets a bug pushed to a fixing stage. Vague, non-descript information like "it's broken", or "it crashes", is assuming a tremendous amount of psychic abilities on our behalf. If that were the case, I'd be gaming the stock market instead of working on XSI.

We still like to think we're awesome, though.

- ½

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM
> [mailto:owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM]On Behalf
> Of Andy Nicholas
> Sent: Monday, 23 January, 2006 05:11
> To: XSI(at)Softimage.COM
> Subject: Re: Why XSI Is Awesome
>
>
> Hi Raffaele,
>
> Exactly, I couldn't agree more.
>
> In fact, for this particular bug, Softimage have known about it for a
> while and they thought that they'd fixed it. They added two
> "catches" to
> ensure that they were using valid avi settings. One was for the codec
> (making sure it exists on the machine) and the other was to
> clear all but
> the critical options in the avi structure to make sure they weren't
> caching any invalid pointers.
>
> I resubmitted this as a bug last month, but the repro steps
> couldn't be
> nailed down. As you said, these are the worst bugs to find
> and there'd be
> no point Softimage spending hundreds of man hours trying to track this
> issue down.
>
>
>
>
> > Has anybody sent soft the problem AND the repro steps?
> >
> > I remember witnessing similar topics going on in betalists and more
> > public mailing lists, only to find out that NOTHING was
> logged beside
> > somebody saying "this is broken!" when I dug deeper into it.
> >
> > In one or two instances I've seen bugs everybody whined about for a
> > while, to be fixed in a 2 weeks cycle right after I sent
> proper repro
> > steps and conditions.
> >
> > Anybody who's ever had to deal with software design or software dev
> > could tell you how hard debugging can be, especially when
> you try for
> > days to repro the bug and there's no way you can trigger it on your
> > healthy install, and you have nothing to work with but a
> non descript
> > bug title and a 16digits number that identifies it with no possible
> > correlations to other bugs or issues.
> >
> > A company will NOT put dev people scavenging in the trash
> for weeks to
> > eradicate a bug that can't be pinpointed, it would be
> horrible dev time
> > management.
> >
> > I'm not trying to shift the blame, condone lack of QA or
> fan the flames;
> > so please don't reply to my mail re-iterating the (some of
> them valid)
> > points that have already been made throughout this thread.
> > All I'm saying is that there's a difference between people whinging
> > about something for years and people having let know Soft
> PROPERLY for
> > years.
> >
> > So... has anybody found repro conditions and steps for this
> and logged
> > it with a scene and/or a script?
> > Or do people really think that just saying "feature X is sometimes
> > broken for me on my unspecified platform and configuration"
> is actually
> > good enough for dev to fix it?
> > If that's the case then go ahead and keep making a ruckus
> until they fix
> > it, if that's not the case... sorry, I won't repro it for
> you because
> > here it just doesn't happen.
> >
> >  ******************************
> > |     Raffaele Fragapane       |
> > |     Rising Sun Pictures      |
> > | "Remember, TD is for TopDog" |
> >  ******************************
> >
> >
> >
> > brad friedman wrote:
> >
> >> For me, right now, its frustration.
> >>
> >> In the past three years, I moved from a Maya amature, to a
> student, to
> >> an XSI student, to an XSI professional.  I spend about 10
> hours a day
> >> with the software and am expected to create imagry of the highest
> >> quality in the most efficient and cost effective manner.  To put it
> >> simply, XSI puts bacon on the table. I have invested enourmous
> >> ammounts of time and resources in my ability to use XSI to
> do my job.
> >> Add to that, that like a lot of 3d animators, my job is
> more than just
> >> a job.  There have been sacrifices.  For example, Mike and
> I were in
> >> the office all day yesterday.  I'm not complaining. It was
> a willingly
> >> made saccrifice.
> >>
> >> So, given that kind of dependence and devotion to the software in a
> >> long term evolutionary manner, I'm going to get frustrated
> and hostile
> >> if things go particularly bad.  Unlike a bunch of internet kiddies
> >> complaining about a video game in some random web forum, XSI and
> >> Softimage matter.  Its important.  Bugs, design decisions and QA of
> >> the software have direct impact on my day to day
> activities as well as
> >> my long term career.
> >>
> >> spot bugs on new releases can be understood.
> >>
> >> but when it goes out the door with bugs that I know have
> been reported
> >> well in advance of release...
> >>
> >> but when features seem to have been implemented but not tested with
> >> any production environment in mind...
> >>
> >> but when things that were fine before, suddenly become
> unstable in the
> >> current release...
> >>
> >> but when I KNOW I wont get a bugfix release of the software for
> >> months... and even then it may not fix the most glaring
> and important
> >> bugs.
> >>
> >> but when bugs impact my workflow and take away techniques and
> >> potential solutions.
> >>
> >> but when I know I need some super duper level of support
> contract in
> >> order to deal with any real issues... except... oh yea...  I'm a
> >> freelancer!!!  Support contracts are not designed for me.
> >>
> >> All of this creates valid fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD) in me
> >> regarding the near and long term for what I do all day.
> >>
> >> So, I react with frustration.  Natural, justified human reaction.
> >>
> >> I'm sure others are in a similar boat.
> >>
> >> I think it gets worse when apologists go on to tell you that your
> >> frustration is unjustified.
> >>
> >> And the icing on the cake is admonishment for not having saved more
> >> often... not having known ahead of time that there was a
> critical bug
> >> embeded in a complex workflow... etc.
> >>
> >> And while all this goes on... silence from Soft... the
> people you wan!
> >> t to hear from... but more importantly, see action from.
> >>
> >> -brad
> >>
> >> */Frank Lenhard < franky(at)ixdream.com>/* wrote:
> >>
> >>     what i dont quite understand is the hostility i always
> read in these
> >>     complain mails. now, i know that i'm new and that
> someone who got
> >>     annoyed since some versions with the same bug will
> complain, but it
> >>     always comes in such a hostile way. as if soft would
> do that with
> >>     purpose.
> >>     working with max since ever, i dont know... i wold
> have suffered
> >>     several heart attacks if i would react like you guys
> sometimes do.
> >>     i rather know a bug in a software capable of great things than
> >>     working with a software promising great things that
> 1st dont work
> >>     properly and 2nd takes years to work kinda stable!
> >>
> >>     -------------
> >>     Frank Lenhard
> >>     digital
> >>     3d animation // post production
> >>     join http://www.ixdream! .com
> >>     mailto franky(at)ixdream.com
> >>
> >>
> >>------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------
> >>
> >>No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.20/232 - Release Date:
> >> 1/17/2006
> >>
> >>
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--
Mike