My suggestion would be to buy Massive Jet and get some of the agents
they have on library as it is literally plug and play.
I have been using it for more than 2 years (the full package it is) and
has been so far great, just great.
PRMan obviously is a "funny" factor, specially as it is our case when
you use version 11.3, quite buggy and annoying but we managed to iron it
with a bit of patience.
This will all change this year with the new film quality hardware
rendering and MI export plus many many other things.
In terms of easy of use, massive is very easy to learn, no scripting at
all although you can write python code to automate things.
If you plan to use it just as it is now, buy 3Delight instead of PRMan,
it is much better and faster for crowds.
hope it helps
jb
On Tue, 2006-03-28 at 11:43 +0200, Stefan Andersson wrote:
> hehe... seems most crowd simulation tools arn't for the faint hearted.
> I remember Adrian saying something about hippies and that they should
> make a renderer... one cloudy day in the tombs of the mill :)
>
> I don't have a specific task right now, but merly looking into what's
> out there and what the cost will be to get it up and running. I would
> think that the most basic things would be to make people walk in a
> pattern or fill bakgrounds with thousands of people.
> I'm also wondering if it could be used to have thousands of spiders
> crawling on floors/celings etc.
>
> And since we hired Arvid BjÃrn recently I'll dump most of the coding onto him :)
>
> regards
> stefan andersson
>
>
> On 3/28/06, kim aldis <kim(at)cg-soup.com> wrote:
> > Behaviour isn't for the faint hearted either.
> >
> > Depends on what you want to do, Stephan. Many crowd sims are just things
> > running in a direction, maybe a bit of direction control to avoid scenery.
> > If this is what you're after then my experience has been to stay away from
> > Behaviour, look for other methods. Otherwise, if you need complex
> > interaction then I'd go for Behaviour, simply because it's closer to xsi and
> > mental ray. But .... Make sure you get some experienced help. You *will*
> > need to drive it from scripts, almost entirely.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM
> > > [mailto:owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM] On Behalf Of adrian
> > > Sent: 28-March-2006 10:09
> > > To: XSI(at)Softimage.COM
> > > Subject: Re: crowd simulations
> > >
> > > my Â0.02
> > >
> > > massive is not for the feint hearted, especially as currently
> > > you need a renderman compliant renderer.....
> > > (i did charging cavalry, from mocap of real horses through to
> > > rendering in prman,& i still have nightmares...) however, a
> > > mental ray version is on the cards, and with massive jet, you
> > > get a shed load of out of the box mocap and agents, all setup
> > > and ready to go!
> > > jet doesn't allow you to modify the 'brains" on the agents,
> > > so you're stuck with what massive give you action wise but it
> > > really 'should' be point and click (here's my terrain, here's
> > > where i want my guys to start, there's a thing for them to
> > > avoid/attack etc)
> > >
> > > (you can modify the geometry and textures of course!)
> > >
> > > and on their site there is news about mayhem and sword
> > > fighting agents to soon be released, so expect lord of the
> > > rings type battle sequences in eastenders soon....
> > >
> > > a
> > >
> > > Adrian Wyer
> > > Fluid Pictures
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Sandy E. Sutherland" <sandy(at)therefinery.co.za>
> > > To: <XSI(at)Softimage.COM>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 9:23 AM
> > > Subject: RE: crowd simulations
> > >
> > >
> > > > OK My 2 cents for what it's worth!
> > > >
> > > > Bugz for Maya is very limited, I quickly looked at it - not
> > > much cop at
> > > > all (unless I missed something) - But cool for free!
> > > >
> > > > Behaviour - comes free with Advanced which is cool - it is
> > > difficult to
> > > > use, as you may well need to get into piccolo scripting,
> > > unless you are
> > > > doing such basic stuff that can use the basic point and
> > > click method!!
> > > > BUT Needs MR tokens to render with, unless you do want to
> > > write out data
> > > > to reimport into XSI and map onto characters - which really
> > > limits the
> > > > numbers of your crowd scenes, as you obviously need to be
> > > able to render
> > > > them!! If you do have MR tokens, it is quite cool - as it
> > > seems to be
> > > > able to render large data pretty quickly with no real RAM
> > > problems, as
> > > > it exports MI files!!!
> > > >
> > > > Massive - The Ferrari of them all - I have not seen it, but
> > > have spoken
> > > > to them - they are supposed to be coming out with a MR
> > > version this year
> > > > - now you need to have a Renderman Variant to render with!!
> > > Supposed to
> > > > come with lots of prebuilt libraries of stuff - and is as
> > > far as I can
> > > > tell not based upon scripting!!!!! Come down in price - so not too
> > > > bad!! And if you look at the likes of Air - pretty good!!
> > > >
> > > > Cheer
> > > >
> > > > S.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Sandy Sutherland Digital Doodeller - TD
> > > > The Refinery (Cape) http://www.therefinery.co.za
> > > > mailto:sandy(at)therefinery.co.za
> > > > (P) (+27 21) 409 2016 (Cel) 0827893789
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM
> > > [mailto:owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM] On Behalf
> > > > Of Stefan Andersson
> > > > Sent: 28 March 2006 10:08 AM
> > > > To: XSI(at)Softimage.COM
> > > > Subject: crowd simulations
> > > >
> > > > Hi everyone,
> > > >
> > > > I'm starting to collect some information regarding crowd simulations
> > > > and I was wondering if people with experience here on the list could
> > > > give me some insight and share some of the experiences. It's always
> > > > good to be prepared if the situation will come up... and I hear more
> > > > and more questions from various clients regaring crowds.
> > > >
> > > > Right now there are a few options which will all cost money
> > > for us :)
> > > >
> > > > 1.) Behavior (upgrade to advanced)
> > > >
> > > > 2.) Massive Jet
> > > >
> > > > 3.) Maya (getting Maya mental ray render lincenses) using
> > > > http://www.kolve.com/mp_brainbugz/brainbugz.htm
> > > >
> > > > Since we have little (read "zero, njet, nada,") experience
> > > with any of
> > > > these it would be helpful to hear what you people think. It's one
> > > > thing what the PR person for each reseller tells you (according to
> > > > them there are no problems at all....). And there is also a question
> > > > abuot rendering licenses, can they all use mental ray? I waguely
> > > > remember a discussion that Behavior needed a standalone version of
> > > > mental ray? And can Massive render with mental ray or do we need to
> > > > use Renderman?
> > > >
> > > > Anyhow... lot's of questions.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > regards
> > > > stefan andersson
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > stockholm postproduction | http://www.stopost.se
> > > >
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--
Jordi Bares <jordibares(at)the-mill.com>
The Mill
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