Re: crowd simulations

["wovie" <wovie(at)xsichina.com>]

COOL!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "kim aldis" <kim(at)cg-soup.com>
To: <XSI(at)Softimage.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 5:37 AM
Subject: RE: crowd simulations


> It wasn't particles but thanks for the compliment.
>
>
> www.kim-aldis.co.uk/temp/Meshcrawl.avi
> And
>
> www.kim-aldis.co.uk/temp/MeshCrawlerFlowed.avi
>
>
> If anyone's interested. All procedural, none of it Behaviour. I'll write 
> up
> some stuff on it when I get time.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM
> > [mailto:owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM] On Behalf Of Kris Rivel
> > Sent: 28-March-2006 21:10
> > To: XSI(at)Softimage.COM
> > Subject: Re: crowd simulations
> >
> > I remember Kim showing some really cool crowd stuff using
> > particles at the TD Love Tour.  Nice stuff for having
> > characters avoid obstacles and having simple crowd flow.
> >
> > Kris
> >
> > Jordi Bares wrote:
> >
> > >My suggestion would be to buy Massive Jet and get some of the agents
> > >they have on library as it is literally plug and play.
> > >
> > >I have been using it for more than 2 years (the full package
> > it is) and
> > >has been so far great, just great.
> > >
> > >PRMan obviously is a "funny" factor, specially as it is our
> > case when
> > >you use version 11.3, quite buggy and annoying but we
> > managed to iron
> > >it with a bit of patience.
> > >
> > >This will all change this year with the new film quality hardware
> > >rendering and MI export plus many many other things.
> > >
> > >In terms of easy of use, massive is very easy to learn, no
> > scripting at
> > >all although you can write python code to automate things.
> > >
> > >If you plan to use it just as it is now, buy 3Delight
> > instead of PRMan,
> > >it is much better and faster for crowds.
> > >
> > >hope it helps
> > >
> > >jb
> > >
> > >
> > >On Tue, 2006-03-28 at 11:43 +0200, Stefan Andersson wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>hehe... seems most crowd simulation tools arn't for the
> > faint hearted.
> > >>I remember Adrian saying something about hippies and that
> > they should
> > >>make a renderer... one cloudy day in the tombs of the mill :)
> > >>
> > >>I don't have a specific task right now, but merly looking
> > into what's
> > >>out there and what the cost will be to get it up and
> > running. I would
> > >>think that the most basic things would be to make people walk in a
> > >>pattern or fill bakgrounds with thousands of people.
> > >>I'm also wondering if it could be used to have thousands of spiders
> > >>crawling on floors/celings etc.
> > >>
> > >>And since we hired Arvid Björn recently I'll dump most of
> > the coding
> > >>onto him :)
> > >>
> > >>regards
> > >>stefan andersson
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>On 3/28/06, kim aldis <kim(at)cg-soup.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>Behaviour isn't for the faint hearted either.
> > >>>
> > >>>Depends on what you want to do, Stephan. Many crowd sims are just
> > >>>things running in a direction, maybe a bit of direction
> > control to avoid scenery.
> > >>>If this is what you're after then my experience has been
> > to stay away
> > >>>from Behaviour, look for other methods. Otherwise, if you need
> > >>>complex interaction then I'd go for Behaviour, simply because it's
> > >>>closer to xsi and mental ray. But .... Make sure you get some
> > >>>experienced help. You *will* need to drive it from
> > scripts, almost entirely.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>-----Original Message-----
> > >>>>From: owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM
> > >>>>[mailto:owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM] On Behalf Of adrian
> > >>>>Sent: 28-March-2006 10:09
> > >>>>To: XSI(at)Softimage.COM
> > >>>>Subject: Re: crowd simulations
> > >>>>
> > >>>>my £0.02
> > >>>>
> > >>>>massive is not for the feint hearted, especially as currently you
> > >>>>need a renderman compliant renderer.....
> > >>>>(i did charging cavalry, from mocap of real horses through to
> > >>>>rendering in prman,& i still have nightmares...) however,
> > a mental
> > >>>>ray version is on the cards, and with massive jet, you get a shed
> > >>>>load of out of the box mocap and agents, all setup and
> > ready to go!
> > >>>>jet doesn't allow you to modify the 'brains" on the agents, so
> > >>>>you're stuck with what massive give you action wise but it really
> > >>>>'should' be point and click (here's my terrain, here's
> > where i want
> > >>>>my guys to start, there's a thing for them to avoid/attack etc)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>(you can modify the geometry and textures of course!)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>and on their site there is news about mayhem and sword fighting
> > >>>>agents to soon be released, so expect lord of the rings
> > type battle
> > >>>>sequences in eastenders soon....
> > >>>>
> > >>>>a
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Adrian Wyer
> > >>>>Fluid Pictures
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>From: "Sandy E. Sutherland" <sandy(at)therefinery.co.za>
> > >>>>To: <XSI(at)Softimage.COM>
> > >>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 9:23 AM
> > >>>>Subject: RE: crowd simulations
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>OK My 2 cents for what it's worth!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Bugz for Maya is very limited, I quickly looked at it - not
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>much cop at
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>all (unless I missed something) - But cool for free!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Behaviour - comes free with Advanced which is cool - it is
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>difficult to
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>use, as you may well need to get into piccolo scripting,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>unless you are
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>doing such basic stuff that can use the basic point and
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>click method!!
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>BUT Needs MR tokens to render with, unless you do want to
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>write out data
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>to reimport into XSI and map onto characters - which really
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>limits the
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>numbers of your crowd scenes, as you obviously need to be
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>able to render
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>them!!  If you do have MR tokens, it is quite cool - as it
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>seems to be
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>able to render large data pretty quickly with no real RAM
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>problems, as
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>it exports MI files!!!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Massive - The Ferrari of them all - I have not seen it, but
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>have spoken
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>to them - they are supposed to be coming out with a MR
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>version this year
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>- now you need to have a Renderman Variant to render with!!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> Supposed to
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>come with lots of prebuilt libraries of stuff - and is as
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>far as I can
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>tell not based upon scripting!!!!!  Come down in price -
> > so not too
> > >>>>>bad!!  And if you look at the likes of Air - pretty good!!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Cheer
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>S.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>----------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>>Sandy Sutherland  Digital Doodeller - TD The Refinery (Cape)
> > >>>>>http://www.therefinery.co.za mailto:sandy(at)therefinery.co.za
> > >>>>>(P) (+27 21) 409 2016  (Cel) 0827893789
> > >>>>>----------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>-----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>From: owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>[mailto:owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM] On Behalf
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>Of Stefan Andersson
> > >>>>>Sent: 28 March 2006 10:08 AM
> > >>>>>To: XSI(at)Softimage.COM
> > >>>>>Subject: crowd simulations
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Hi everyone,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>I'm starting to collect some information regarding crowd
> > >>>>>simulations and I was wondering if people with
> > experience here on
> > >>>>>the list could give me some insight and share some of the
> > >>>>>experiences. It's always good to be prepared if the
> > situation will
> > >>>>>come up... and I hear more and more questions from
> > various clients regaring crowds.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Right now there are a few options which will all cost money
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>for us :)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>1.) Behavior (upgrade to advanced)
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>2.) Massive Jet
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>3.) Maya (getting Maya mental ray render lincenses) using
> > >>>>>http://www.kolve.com/mp_brainbugz/brainbugz.htm
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Since we have little (read "zero, njet, nada,") experience
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>with any of
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>these it would be helpful to hear what you people think.
> > It's one
> > >>>>>thing what the PR person for each reseller tells you
> > (according to
> > >>>>>them there are no problems at all....). And there is also a
> > >>>>>question abuot rendering licenses, can they all use
> > mental ray? I
> > >>>>>waguely remember a discussion that Behavior needed a standalone
> > >>>>>version of mental ray? And can Massive render with
> > mental ray or do
> > >>>>>we need to use Renderman?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Anyhow... lot's of questions.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>regards
> > >>>>>stefan andersson
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>--
> > >>>>>stockholm postproduction | http://www.stopost.se
> > >>>>>
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