Re: Re:center/pivot was - XSI Montreal "Tips & Tricks" session, looking for presenters

["Tim Leydecker" <BauerOink(at)gmx.de>]

Hi Luc-Eric,

since you offer the option to work in different "switch modes" while
modeling, even offer the option to animate the object pivot, the
keying panel should of course allways display the correct values,
e.g. show data that fit´s the mode selected to work in currently.

Even if the keying panel is to be thought of as the left side of the
animation editor, supposed to hold animation curves expressed
in local space, this would only require a translation step between
current mode and the resulting key in local space.

If you say this can´t be expected to be supported you´re actually
limiting any form of reliable animation as well as modeling that involves
numerical input, either through script or direct userinput to local space,
therefore don´t really support the other spaces as workingmodes.

You where relating to Maya´s channelbox in a previous mail, which
allways shows the corresponding SRT values but doesn´t have more
than local space or the option to directly animate the pivot, therefore
naturally doesn´t need to have any conversion steps but is also just
as limiting as it doesn´t allow to, let´s say plant the right foot onto a
30° angled plane, theleft foot an exact 3 units onto that same plane
(one could do that by getting something out of curvelength, livepaint
a curve onto the planesurface, attach foot (indirectly) to follow the
curvepath and dial in a percentage). In XSI, one "should" be able
to simply set the 30°plane the ref plane, snap to it, key, snap other
foot to it, add +3 in the KP/L and key. Resulting curves could still
be stored in local space, plotted in worldspace. See the power?

Cheers

tim




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Luc-Eric Rousseau" <lucer(at)Softimage.COM>
To: <XSI(at)Softimage.COM>
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 7:36 PM
Subject: RE: Re:center/pivot was - XSI Montreal "Tips & Tricks" session, looking for 
presenters


> One can't really expect the keying panel to "switch modes" and show data in global, 
> COG, modes, etc, think about the keying panel as the left hand side of the 
> Animation Editor.
>
> As stated earlier, the keying panel is showing you the keyable parameters on your 
> object, it's not a data entry panel for the Transform tool, which in turn are 
> inputs given to script commands like 'scale object'.
>
> To take your earlier example, if you scale an object in COG mode, getting that 
> result can invole both a translate and a scale, so that changes 6 parameters, not 
> just the three "Scale" parameters of the local transform (aka KineState) 
> properties.  The three scale values that you entered are not real animatable 
> parameters themselves.  The parameters on the Keying Panel are real animation 
> curves on the object.
>
> When you're animating, for example characters, your pivots should have been set 
> correctly and you would typically be manipulating the object in local mode only. 
> If need to move the pivot, or use another one, to do a transform, you're probably 
> still modeling.
>
> btw I've incorrectly wrote previously "objects scale around their center" but 
> should have been "around their Pivot", which is the terminology in XSI.  Center vs 
> pivot in the XSI UI is better described in the XSI 5 documentation 
> (http://softimage.wiki.avid.com/xsidocs/ax521013.htm)
>
> We think there might be confusion related to changing the Center in XSI when you 
> what is actually desired is chaning the Pivot.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tim Leydecker
> >
> > EDITS: It´s so complicated I mix up local/worldspace constantly.
> >
> > Hi Brent,
> >
> > thanks for pointing out the differences between object pivot
> > and center.
> >
> > I had played with it a bit and *think* I got it to work as I´d need.
> > Still haven´t understood why there is a need to differentiate but
> > that´ll come with time I guess.
> >
> > It´s pretty hard not to get confused and mix up terminology or
> > functionality, so I´ve put together two, three sampleworkflows
> > I´d like to easily go through without worrying about getting shifts
> > or loosing the option to enter/see correct values in the KP/L.
> >
> > 1)Animation:
> >
> > Helperobject (like a nurbscircle) driving an IK chain, the
> > NURBS object
> > pivot is centered, all values are zeroed out. Both [k]eying
> > and numerical
> > entering a value in the KP/L produce similar results. The KP/L shows
> > reliable info,
> > -----------------------------------
> > (edit) not worldspace, because transforms had been zeroed
> > out, entering 0/0/0/ in worldspace would produce incorrect
> > results, the
> > object wouldn´t jump back to it´s freeze position. One should therefor
> > be able to switch the KP/L from local to world (via the
> > Transformpanel-
> > buttons, local, global, COG) and enter values based on that
> > coordinate system.
> > ----------------------------
> >
> > 2)Modeling:
> >
> > Squeaky wheel, it´s object pivot set fixed to the rotation
> > axis, scaling
> > the object numercially keeps it "in place".
> >
> > Squeaky wheel, toggling COG on/off, allows to have selected every
> > 2nd poly of the tires and either extrude outwards (Y) uniformly or,
> > when off, have the center sit on the extruded face (aligned) and move
> > it outwards numerically, either throught the extrude PPG or entering
> > the amount into the KP/L, e.g. KP/L would show the centervalues in
> > local space.
> >
> > Currently, as the tools don´t take into account COG/refplane
> > (it seems)
> > it´s difficult to first align the object pivot with a ref
> > plane, then use a tool
> > like extrude to numercially extrude something correctly in a
> > (local) axis.
> >
> > Instead, the extrude seems to work based on the objectpivot,
> > which isn´t
> > modified (and shouldn´t) but really should work based on the
> > settings set
> > in the Transform panel, e.g. local(center or pivot?)/global
> > (world?)/ref...
> >
> > So, while you´re at it, would be cool to check for
> > consistency, so that in
> > whatever mode, one could use the KP/L to enter a desired
> > value (no shift),
> > extrude/use tool based on the currently set
> > Transformpanel(space) options
> > (e.g. local space for component selections) and never worry
> > about keying
> > the wrong values in the KP/L EDIT:
> > -----
> > as the KP/L allways shows the correct values based on the
> > transformmode
> > set, local, global, ref, and so on
> >
> > ------
> >
> > Cheers
>
> ---
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