Agree. I want the SM to work well because it has promise so far.
> Thanks guys. Glad to be here!
>
> No, the mixer and manager don't play too nice :) We just recently
> switched over to the Shape Manager, for no other reason than it seems
> like it needs to be hammered on more. It doesn't seem to have gotten
> much production attention yet. I doubt you are the only ones hitting
> that wall as we have hit parts of hit here. All of these things need to
> get fixed if we are to abandon the old mixer workflow for shapes. It
> will be such a nice tool if the little stuff gets worked out better and
> they seem anxious for the feedback on it.
>
> -Jeff
>
>
>
>
> Bradley Gabe wrote:
> > Hey Jeff-
> >
> > Welcome aboard.
> >
> > In this case, it's not the fact that I have shapes and envelopes
> > combined. I think it's because I have to pre-create all of my shape
> > sliders and link them to expressions before I hand off the rig to the
> > shape artist to do his corrective work.
> >
> > Keep in mind, this artist is more of a classical sculptor, so getting
> > him to do CG modeling has been wonderful. I don't want to burden him
> > with setting up the relational links or doing any of the rigging work.
> > Incidentally, the Shape Manager automagically dropping in new shapes is
> > not helping the situation.
> >
> > I tried to go old school by setting up additional shapes using Store
> > Shape Key and direct manipulation in the Mixer. Unfortunately we're
> > finding that attempts to leave the Shape Manager for goodies it doesn't
> > provide results in the Shape Manager crashing upon return (we call this
> > the "jealous lover syndrome"). I have logged these bugs with Softimage
> > and they have fixed a few for the latest patch, however still not enough
> > to get it working consistently.
> >
> > If we are the only ones hitting this wall, I'll let it go, and we'll
> > figure out a different approach. Otherwise, we need to fix it.
> >
> >
> >
> >> Hey Brad. It should work with shapes on top of envelopes. We use
> >> that method here on top of Face Robot which has all kinds of stuff
> >> going on in the stack. You can also go old-school and model on top of
> >> your result, zero out the sliders, select the cluster and do Animate >
> >> Shape > Store Shape Key. This will have the side effect of adding two
> >> copies of the new shape to Shape Manager, but you can delete one. The
> >> first method should work fine though, although I'm sure I don't
> >> understand the complexity of your setup.
> >>
> >> I would also like to be able to organize the manager better. The one
> >> thing I really want is to be able to exclude shapes altogether. With
> >> the mixer, you could have 250 shapes, but only use 3 of them. Shape
> >> Manager just shows you everything, like it or not.
> >>
> >> btw, Hello everyone. I just finally subscribed :)
> >>
> >> -Jeff
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Bradley Gabe wrote:
> >>
> >>> Thanks George. So at least the concept is feasible!
> >>>
> >>> I think our main problem is that we are linking our shape sliders to a
> >>> custom key panel. So a single slider, "LeftSmile" is pushing an envelope
> >>> AND corrective face shapes.
> >>>
> >>> Unfortunately, the workflow of this workaround is not going to work for
> >>> a more complex shape rig.
> >>>
> >>> I think the solution to this workflow issue might be something as simple
> >>> as an option to ignore Cluster Shape Combiner Ops when storing new
> >>> shapes.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> We've found a work around to this, Brad......I'm not sure if it's a
> >>>> loophole or what.....but we can model a new shape with the other shapes
> >>>> applied on the object.
> >>>>
> >>>> You can test it out if you want.
> >>>>
> >>>> With the Shape Manager open and the "Animate" panel showing, (Make sure
> >>>> you're in Shape Modeling Mode) you can tweak the model's geometry with
> >>>> what ever shapes you have dialed in......once you've made the changes,
> >>>> "Zero out" your sliders (with key all off, this should only reset the
> >>>> sliders til you scroll thru the timeline) then go to the "Create Panel"
> >>>> and then back to the "Animate Panel"...you should have a new slider with
> >>>> only the change and not all the other shapes multiplied on top.
> >>>>
> >>>> There you go, test it out and see if it works for your project.
> >>>>
> >>>> George
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Bradley Gabe wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> We've been using it quite extensively on a creature project (100+ facial
> >>>>> shapes). I have to say it's quite a nice improvement over the older way
> >>>>> of working.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> However, the one major workflow issue we have been having is that you
> >>>>> cannot work on a new shape while any older shapes are applied. I'm
> >>>>> hoping this is only an error on our part and somebody knows how to do
> >>>>> this:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Model the left side of your creature smile. Next, try to model the right
> >>>>> side of the smile while the left smile is applied.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Using the Shape Manager, presently we can only get 1 of 2 results:
> >>>>> 1- A new shape is generated that includes the results of the old shape,
> >>>>> so we get a left smile shape and a left+right smile shape.
> >>>>> 2- We can model the right side shape while the left is turned off, but
> >>>>> then the middle points that are affected by both shapes don't look right
> >>>>> when both shapes are applied.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In the days before the Shape Manager, it was easy to do this kind of
> >>>>> work. You would build your first shape and set the weight to 1 and leave
> >>>>> it on while you build your second shape. Then you could reduce the
> >>>>> weight of the first shape to 0 and store the second shape.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As far as I can tell, the Shape Manager won't even let us do the old
> >>>>> style workaround! If we manipulate shape clips directly in the Mixer the
> >>>>> Shape Manager breaks. :-/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Brad
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> From: "Bradley Gabe" <withanar(at)stanwinston.com>
> >>>>>> To: <xsi(at)Softimage.COM>
> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 11:46 AM
> >>>>>> Subject: Shape Manager?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Just curious. Is anyone else out there using the Shape Manager
> >>>>>>> extensively for production work?
> >>>>>>>
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