Re: Custom Contour Shader Questions...

["Tim Leydecker" <BauerOink(at)gmx.de>]

Hi Thomas,

see if you can find the free standalone *.fbx converter
at the Alias/Autodesk site, probably part of one of the
plug-in downloads for Maya in case you canÂt spot it.

Loads *.fbx, *.3DS and *.obj files and converts back
and forth between those formats. May prove handy.

Cheers

tim

P.S: Arghh, licensing. bah. Cost me days after an OS install...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Thomas Helzle" <xsi(at)screendream.de>
To: <XSI(at)Softimage.COM>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: Custom Contour Shader Questions...


> The way we did it this time was rather stupid but worked just fine for the pitch:
> Rendering to RGBA PNGs from XSI with the XSI toon shader, importing the sequence in 
> Flash 8 and then (because of the horrible bitmap scaling in Flash) converting it 
> there to vectors one image at a time. The tracer in Flash is quite good, but the 
> animations became too large for the real world (again, it was fine for the pitch).
>
> Since the presentation went well yesterday, we may need a fluid and fast solution 
> that creates much smaller files.
> In the end, I will try to do the inklines as vectors and the shading as jpgs in a 
> layer behind the lines (smooth gradients scale just fine in Flash).
>
> If contours/eps export proves to be suboptimal, I think I will give Swift 3D 
> Standalone a try (if I can't find that second old overpriced plugin license for XSI 
> that is ;-) ). XSI can't output to 3ds which happens to be the only import format 
> in Swift 3D, but exporting as .XSI and converting with Deep Exploration may work...
>
> Way too much trouble for my taste, but hey... ;-)
>
> But honestly: if I read another of those bold statements that XSI doesn't need more 
> plugins I think I will go throwing up in a dark corner.
>
> Since the SDK discussion came up lately I want to add my unasked-for two cent to 
> that also:
>
> - I vote for opening up the SDK for commercial plugins and make the SDK support 
> optional. Small developers don't pay 2400.- $ a year and may need no support over 
> what this list can provide. It is cool that Softimage sponsors developers but the 
> whole process is counter-creative and not too inviting.
> I would even do it the other way around: throw some _full_ licenses at people like 
> BenR, Alan, Holger, Michele (those metaballs rock!), Moritz etc. who are willing to 
> do free or cheap plugins to broaden the spectrum of projects where XSI can be used.
>
> - Softimage should think about a licensing scheme included in the SDK that allows 
> plugin authors to use one consistent way of licensing without too much trouble. In 
> Lighwave and messiah I can simply license my tools to the dongle which is very easy 
> to do and gives a lot of freedom to the user while being secure enough. In XSI it 
> looks like every developer has to create his own more or less convenient and secure 
> licensing which is confusing and a waste of development time IMO. One company 
> licenses to the network card, another has a simple serial number and a third is 
> trying to get a per machine node-locking mechanism to work...  None of that is both 
> secure and flexible enough for production.
>
> I understand and respect the notion to keep everything under the Softimage-hood and 
> consistent, but at the same time, it is the weakest point of the software from my 
> point of view which is the view of a smallest-possible-studio allrounder where each 
> project needs completely different tools and more often than not there is no time 
> to write a custom inhouse solution.
>
> Best regards and thanks again for all the input!
>
> Thomas Helzle
> www.screendream.de
>
>
>
> Am 01.12.2006, 12:53 Uhr, schrieb Tim Leydecker <BauerOink(at)gmx.de>:
>
> > I havenÂt used the latest versions of Flash but did you check
> > if the features you need will actually import correctly into Flash?
> >
> > That program is a bitch when importing larger numbers of vectors
> > with loads of knots and fills, tends to optimize the shapes unasked,
> > resulting in disapearing lines and fills on random frames. No fun...
> >
> > Last time I did vectoroutput I used Maya (ravix engine) and split
> > things up into scenes, outputting seperate layers, one with the
> > Normalangles set to hard at edges supposed to have outline,
> > all others set to 180Â to prevent random lines to show up.
> >
> > Second pass flat fills (all angles 180Â) and a third with gradient
> > shading (huge files, not ideal for webstuff) on select objects.
> >
> > All that combined in Flash on layers and sifted through deleting
> > things may give you more options than trying the above in one go?
> >
> > Especially if you happen to have Lightwave anyway?
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > tim
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Thomas Helzle" <xsi(at)screendream.de>
> > To: <XSI(at)Softimage.COM>
> > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 9:02 AM
> > Subject: Re: Custom Contour Shader Questions...
> >
> >
> > > Hm - I'm not sure what it can do. I need outlines, creases, material borders and 
> > > if
> > > possible a texture threshold too. And yes, I fear I would need full hidden 
> > > surface
> > > to prevent showing back side lines through the wire.
> > > Is Swuff dead then?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Thomas Helzle
> > >
> > > Am 01.12.2006, 08:33 Uhr, schrieb Kim Aldis <XSI(at)kim-aldis.co.uk>:
> > >
> > > > I Keep saying I'm going to publish my eps export plugin. It doesn't do full
> > > > hidden surface, just back-face culling but would it be of any use to you
> > > > here?
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM [mailto:owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM] On
> > > > > Behalf Of Thomas Helzle
> > > > > Sent: 01 December 2006 01:07
> > > > > To: XSI(at)Softimage.COM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Custom Contour Shader Questions...
> > > > >
> > > > > If Contour Shaders prove to be unusable, I will have a look at that
> > > > > stuff, but the examples in that paper don't look too motivating to me.
> > > > > The Tomcat shader may use some basic principles from this technique to
> > > > > find the contours, but it uses maya paint effects for its great looking
> > > > > strokes and styles AFAIK, something that isn't available anywhere else.
> > > > >
> > > > > But Hair placed along contours may be a funny idea to try... :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > I know a lot of other NPR workarounds and techniques, like cloning your
> > > > > model, make it all black, render/show only backside polys and use a
> > > > > push op (or displacement) to set your line thickness. Visible in the
> > > > > viewport too and renders reliably with almost no overhead since it
> > > > > isn't based on subsampling. Combined with weightmaps for the push or
> > > > > displacement maps, you have very fine control over the "strokes".
> > > > > ...and sure it has problems too like all options I have evaluated so
> > > > > far... ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > But for this particular job, I just need simple Flash-compatible ink
> > > > > lines in one color over extremely simple objects for animated symbols
> > > > > and waiting half an hour for 25 frames at 350 pixels square isn't
> > > > > practical when Lightwave can do it with better quality in seconds.
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, I look forward to try the MR contours with Halfdans help.
> > > > > I will let you know if I come up with something usable.
> > > > >
> > > > > guillaume: I don't know what happened exactly, but Toon shading was the
> > > > > only "unusual" thing in the project, so I assumed it to be the cause
> > > > > for the crashing and massive buggyness. Sure I can be wrong and it was
> > > > > goblins... ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Does the old Swift 3D for XSI still work in 5.11? Maybe I can find an
> > > > > old license somewhere on ebay?
> > > > >
> > > > > Kim: Does your "Swuff" still work for 5.11? Is it available somewhere?
> > > > > All links I found are dead.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for all the input!
> > > > >
> > > > > Thomas Helzle
> > > > > www.screendream.de
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Am 30.11.2006, 19:38 Uhr, schrieb Ahmidou Lyazidi
> > > > > <ahmidou.xsi(at)gmail.com>:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I don' t want to be redondant but geometric stroques look like one of
> > > > > > the best solution for me realtime viewport preview, render fast as a
> > > > > > mouse buton clic, texturable, deformable and so on....
> > > > > > the siggraph paper (section 4.4) :
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > http://www.gamasutra.com/education/theses/20030707/jerome_thoma_thesis
> > > > > > .pdf
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is this technic that is used bye the maya toon module
> > > > > (previously
> > > > > > a plugin called tomcat toon shader)
> > > > > > http://www.deathfall.com/article.php?sid=5239
> > > > > >
> > > > > > the advantage is that it can give many hand drawing styles as well as
> > > > > > clean lines.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > just my 2 euros.
> > > > > > A.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2006/11/30, perryh(at)netzero.net <perryh(at)netzero.net>:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> This brings up a great subject:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> We need a good, fast, flexible Toon renderer for XSI. Toon Ink, and
> > > > > >> contours in general, are only going to take us so far, especially
> > > > > >> after we deal with all the problems stated below.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> finalToon from Cebas seems to be
> > > > > >> one of the best out there, and having this in XSI would be great.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I'm not holding my breath, though. They seem to be focused mostly on
> > > > > >> Max and Maya these days. Still, I did just email them to suggest
> > > > > they
> > > > > >> contact Will at Softimage.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Perry
> > > > >
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