Yes, in case it's not clear: I don't mean to suggest can't submit bugs
without paying money. By all means, everyone should try to use the
support request forms whenever possible. They are far more effective
than the list or the forums for reproducible bugs. All I'm saying is
that I think it could be faster and more effective if it were done in a
more open manner. The only reason I'm even talking about money is that
whenever I've mentioned this opinion to Soft reps, they recommend paying
for escalation support. My point is that escalation support isn't what
we want. What we want is just more efficient, open bug reporting, so
that it's more convenient for me and I can report more bugs without it
taking up as much of my time. And we could collectively validate
difficult-to-repro bugs by quorum, whereas I normally wouldn't even
bother reporting such bugs until I can find repro steps. If I wanted to
make sure my bugs had high priority, *then* we'd consider buying
escalation support. In most cases, Soft gets a lot more out of my bug
reports than I do, as I've already moved past the problem one way or
another by the time I get an answer. That's the only distinction I'm
trying to make regarding money.
What I'm recommending isn't a change to the support structure. Just a
change to the format of the communications. The user community is one
of the best parts about XSI. I just think it should be leveraged more,
when it comes to bug reporting. I think other people share this desire,
and that's why so many people end up going through the list and the
forums already. A bugzilla-style tracker would just help keep such
behavior within the system, so that Softimage devs don't have to pick
through the forums and the list as much to dig out rogue bug reports.
Hmm... Maybe I'm sort of repeating myself... It wouldn't be the first
time. Not even on this topic.
- Andy
Stephen Blair wrote:
>RE: this part:
>
> I just don't see the logic in paying money for the privilege of
>testing and suggesting improvements to a piece of software, when you
>don't require that the bugs get fixed or suggestions get implemented in
>any particular time frame, or ever at all.
>
>
>Right, you don't have to pay to do that. Anybody can log a bug or a
>suggestion or a feature request. You don't need to be on support. Just
>create a softimage.com Web account and you can access the Support
>Request Form.
>
>That's not so difficult.
>
>Steve
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM [mailto:owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM] On Behalf
>Of Andy Jones
>Sent: Sat 31 March 2007 11:59 AM
>To: XSI(at)Softimage.COM
>Subject: Re: Now Available: SOFTIMAGE|XSI 6.01
>
>I've mentioned my feelings on support to various Soft reps before. For
>a while there, it was practically all we talked about, then we finally
>sort of gave up. Basically, my main gripes with support are that a)
>it's too slow to be useful for finding production solutions (even a 1
>day turn-around is generally slower than how long it takes to find
>answers yourself or on the list) b) since the conversation is between
>you and a support tech, the onus is generally on you alone to make sure
>the bug can be repro'ed. As a result, I go to the list or forums when I
>need help, and only go through support when I have a nicely "canned"
>reproducible bug that Soft needs to know about. I'm sure sometimes
>things slip through the cracks, though, and don't always get reported...
>
>Anyway, the solution I've been proposing is to have something more like
>a bugzilla database, such that multiple XSI users can participate in bug
>discussions, and can search for threads describing problems similar to
>theirs, so that instead of duplicate reports, you'd have corroboration.
>
>I think collaborative discussion among more than just a user and a
>support tech would really improve the bug validation, priority
>assessment and tracking process. Really, it's not that big of a
>departure from what's in place now, if you ask me. Instead of
>off-the-record forums and email lists, combined with on-the-record email
>conversations, you'd get a single on-the-record forum for bug
>discussions. And the XSI list would be free to talk about happier
>topics.
>
>When we've complained about support, Soft reps usually just tried to
>sell us escalation support. But we never buy it because we don't
>generally care that much if bug X, Y or Z gets fixed right away anyway.
>
>Instead, we just save our money and work around the bugs. What we want
>is just a less difficult, faster process for getting information about
>bugs we find to Soft, for our own peace of mind, so that the bugs can be
>fixed at whatever pace Soft sees fit. This doesn't seem like something
>we should have to pay for. If we get a big job and need more direct
>access to developers, then we'll buy escalation.
>
>
>
>Anyway, that's my two cents. And please don't read this as a complaint
>about Soft in general. I think Soft does a great job of responding to
>its users, and can cite many examples. Most of them involve channels
>outside the standard support forms, though, and I just think this sort
>of strategy would make the process a lot more streamlined.
>
>- Andy
>
>Bernard Lebel wrote:
>
>
>
>>I mean active maintenance. When you're not on maintenance, you sure
>>can report problems, but there is no garantee Softimage will answer.
>>
>>
>>Bernard
>>
>>
>>
>>On 3/31/07, Kris Rivel <krisrivel(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>By that I assume you mean....not actually real "customers"? :-) If
>>>that's what you mean then yes...thats probably why many don't get
>>>logged officially.
>>>
>>>Kris
>>>
>>>Bernard Lebel wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I generally keep my bug numbers :-)
>>>>
>>>>Halfdan, I believe people that many people that report problems on
>>>>forums and mailing lists are not on active maintenance..... ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bernard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On 3/31/07, Frank Lenhard <frank.lenhard(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>ha! :) i am glad this one got fixed and i reported it through the
>>>>>bug report
>>>>>form;) . i just didnt had the number available here to make a
>>>>>search on the fixlist ;)
>>>>>
>>>>>congrats!!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On 3/31/07, Halfdan Ingvarsson <hingvars(at)softimage.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes, that was fixed as a part of something else. Not all of the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>fixes we
>>>>>made have bugs behind them since it seems that people are more
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>keen on
>>>
>>>
>>>>>reporting them on forums or mailing lists rather than going
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>through the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>official bug reporting tool. Is that maybe something we need to
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>fix? :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> - 1/2
>>>>>>
>>>>>>________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> From: owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM on behalf of Frank Lenhard
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Sent: Sat 31-Mar-07 04:43
>>>>>>To: XSI(at)Softimage.COM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: Now Available: SOFTIMAGE|XSI 6.01
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>yeah! tons of fixes.
>>>>>>i wonder if they also fixed the bug where the framerate didnt
>>>>>>got
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>saved in
>>>>>a scene file and therefore rendered wrong in a renderfarm....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>couldnt find it in the massive list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>but thanks for the hard work soft!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>ciao
>>>>>>franky
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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