Re: Now Available: SOFTIMAGE|XSI 6.01

["Tim Leydecker" <BauerOink(at)gmx.de>]

The Autodesk Maya Platinum Membership gives
you access to so called "Tech Alerts", basically the
bugreports someone else allready logged made readable.

In a way what Andy suggested, some way of validating
a bug or having ways to stay informed about problems
without being narrowed to a single user>Tech Op conversation
that may happen to be based on a problem someone else had
allready logged weeks ago but which is difficult to link/track
without having methods of surveying the current situation
(for both the user and the Tech Ops handling the seperate cases).

Cheers

tim


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bernard Lebel" <3dbernard(at)gmail.com>
To: <XSI(at)Softimage.COM>
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: Now Available: SOFTIMAGE|XSI 6.01


> I would be interesting to know if such a format exists and is
> successful for a commercial software.
>
> I agree that this sounds like a great idea from a user point of view.
>
> However I fear that from a business pov it might not be possible. The
> 3D industry being extremely ferocious, I would imagine that a company
> like Softimage would fear that it could be used by competitors as a
> marketing argument to *not* buy Softimage products.
>
>
> Bernard
>
>
>
>
> On 3/31/07, Andy Jones <andy(at)thefront.com> wrote:
> > Yes, in case it's not clear: I don't mean to suggest can't submit bugs
> > without paying money.  By all means, everyone should try to use the
> > support request forms whenever possible.  They are far more effective
> > than the list or the forums for reproducible bugs.  All I'm saying is
> > that I think it could be faster and more effective if it were done in a
> > more open manner.  The only reason I'm even talking about money is that
> > whenever I've mentioned this opinion to Soft reps, they recommend paying
> > for escalation support.  My point is that escalation support isn't what
> > we want. What we want is just more efficient, open bug reporting, so
> > that it's more convenient for me and I can report more bugs without it
> > taking up as much of my time.  And we could collectively validate
> > difficult-to-repro bugs by quorum, whereas I normally wouldn't even
> > bother reporting such bugs until I can find repro steps.  If I wanted to
> > make sure my bugs had high priority, *then* we'd consider buying
> > escalation support.  In most cases, Soft gets a lot more out of my bug
> > reports than I do, as I've already moved past the problem one way or
> > another by the time I get an answer.  That's the only distinction I'm
> > trying to make regarding money.
> >
> > What I'm recommending isn't a change to the support structure.  Just a
> > change to the format of the communications.  The user community is one
> > of the best parts about XSI.  I just think it should be leveraged more,
> > when it comes to bug reporting.  I think other people share this desire,
> > and that's why so many people end up going through the list and the
> > forums already.  A bugzilla-style tracker would just help keep such
> > behavior within the system, so that Softimage devs don't have to pick
> > through the forums and the list as much to dig out rogue bug reports.
> >
> > Hmm...  Maybe I'm sort of repeating myself...  It wouldn't be the first
> > time.  Not even on this topic.
> >
> > - Andy
> >
> > Stephen Blair wrote:
> >
> > >RE: this part:
> > >
> > >  I just don't see the logic in paying money for the privilege of
> > >testing and suggesting improvements to a piece of software, when you
> > >don't require that the bugs get fixed or suggestions get implemented in
> > >any particular time frame, or ever at all.
> > >
> > >
> > >Right, you don't have to pay to do that. Anybody can log a bug or a
> > >suggestion or a feature request. You don't need to be on support. Just
> > >create a softimage.com Web account and you can access the Support
> > >Request Form.
> > >
> > >That's not so difficult.
> > >
> > >Steve
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM [mailto:owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM] On Behalf
> > >Of Andy Jones
> > >Sent: Sat 31 March 2007 11:59 AM
> > >To: XSI(at)Softimage.COM
> > >Subject: Re: Now Available: SOFTIMAGE|XSI 6.01
> > >
> > >I've mentioned my feelings on support to various Soft reps before.  For
> > >a while there, it was practically all we talked about, then we finally
> > >sort of gave up.  Basically, my main gripes with support are that a)
> > >it's too slow to be useful for finding production solutions (even a 1
> > >day turn-around is generally slower than how long it takes to find
> > >answers yourself or on the list) b) since the conversation is between
> > >you and a support tech, the onus is generally on you alone to make sure
> > >the bug can be repro'ed.  As a result, I go to the list or forums when I
> > >need help, and only go through support when I have a nicely "canned"
> > >reproducible bug that Soft needs to know about.  I'm sure sometimes
> > >things slip through the cracks, though, and don't always get reported...
> > >
> > >Anyway, the solution I've been proposing is to have something more like
> > >a bugzilla database, such that multiple XSI users can participate in bug
> > >discussions, and can search for threads describing problems similar to
> > >theirs, so that instead of duplicate reports, you'd have corroboration.
> > >
> > >I think collaborative discussion among more than just a user and a
> > >support tech would really improve the bug validation, priority
> > >assessment and tracking process.  Really, it's not that big of a
> > >departure from what's in place now, if you ask me.  Instead of
> > >off-the-record forums and email lists, combined with on-the-record email
> > >conversations, you'd get a single on-the-record forum for bug
> > >discussions.  And the XSI list would be free to talk about happier
> > >topics.
> > >
> > >When we've complained about support, Soft reps usually just tried to
> > >sell us escalation support.  But we never buy it because we don't
> > >generally care that much if bug X, Y or Z gets fixed right away anyway.
> > >
> > >Instead, we just save our money and work around the bugs.  What we want
> > >is just a less difficult, faster process for getting information about
> > >bugs we find to Soft, for our own peace of mind, so that the bugs can be
> > >fixed at whatever pace Soft sees fit.  This doesn't seem like something
> > >we should have to pay for.  If we get a big job and need more direct
> > >access to developers, then we'll buy escalation.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Anyway, that's my two cents.  And please don't read this as a complaint
> > >about Soft in general.  I think Soft does a great job of responding to
> > >its users, and can cite many examples.  Most of them involve channels
> > >outside the standard support forms, though, and I just think this sort
> > >of strategy would make the process a lot more streamlined.
> > >
> > >- Andy
> > >
> > >Bernard Lebel wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>I mean active maintenance. When you're not on maintenance, you sure
> > >>can report problems, but there is no garantee Softimage will answer.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Bernard
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>On 3/31/07, Kris Rivel <krisrivel(at)gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>By that I assume you mean....not actually real "customers"? :-)  If
> > >>>that's what you mean then yes...thats probably why many don't get
> > >>>logged officially.
> > >>>
> > >>>Kris
> > >>>
> > >>>Bernard Lebel wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>I generally keep my bug numbers :-)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Halfdan, I believe people that many people that report problems on
> > >>>>forums and mailing lists are not on active maintenance..... ;-)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Bernard
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>On 3/31/07, Frank Lenhard <frank.lenhard(at)gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>ha! :) i am glad this one got fixed and i reported it through the
> > >>>>>bug report
> > >>>>>form;) . i just didnt had the number available here to make a
> > >>>>>search on the fixlist ;)
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>congrats!!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>On 3/31/07, Halfdan Ingvarsson <hingvars(at)softimage.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>Yes, that was fixed as a part of something else. Not all of the
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>fixes we
> > >>>>>made have bugs behind them since it seems that people are more
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>keen on
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>reporting them on forums or mailing lists rather than going
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>through the
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>official bug reporting tool. Is that maybe something we need to
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>fix? :-)
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>> - 1/2
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>________________________________
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> From: owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM on behalf of Frank Lenhard
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>Sent: Sat 31-Mar-07 04:43
> > >>>>>>To: XSI(at)Softimage.COM
> > >>>>>>Subject: Re: Now Available: SOFTIMAGE|XSI 6.01
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>yeah! tons of fixes.
> > >>>>>>i wonder if they also fixed the bug where the framerate didnt
> > >>>>>>got
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>saved in
> > >>>>>a scene file and therefore rendered wrong in a renderfarm....
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>couldnt find it in the massive list.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>but thanks for the hard work soft!
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>ciao
> > >>>>>>franky
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>---
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