Re: RE: xsi 6.x and envelopes ( severe issue)

[Adam Sale <adamsale(at)shaw.ca>]

Brad.. do you see the delta residual effects, affecting characters that aren't using any referencing at all?

A.

----- Original Message -----
From: Bradley Gabe <withanar@gmail.com>
Date: Friday, October 19, 2007 9:44 am
Subject: Re: RE: xsi 6.x and envelopes ( severe issue)
To: XSI@Softimage.COM

> Yes, the IK bone interaction has been a problem with 6.02. We
> even ran into
> the same problem during the Production Challenge at Siggraph,
> but Dave
> managed to tough it out.
>
> My theory was that it is an artifact of the new delta
> referencing system,
> considering the behavior is very much like what happens when you set
> position or rotation keys on the bones, then try and do effector
> manipulations. The deltas are doing getting and setting
> operations behind
> the scenes, and probably weren't fully sorted out for dealing
> with IK
> behavior in their initial implementation.
>
> -Brad
>
> On 10/19/07, Adam Sale <adamsale@shaw.ca> wrote:
> >
> > the popping happens with default chain behavior. IK blend at
> one, Its not
> > the IK chain being manipulated that pops.
> >
> > Lets say I'm moving an IK box for a hand, or rotating a bone
> in the
> > forearm. It works fine, then lets say I go and adjust a finger
> bone angle on
> > the same arm. I may be able to adjust a finger or two, but then
> > inexplicably, the other bones in different chains will pop, or
> the wrist
> > angle will pop to a new angle...
> >
> > I've built and animated a lot of characters in XSI over the
> years, and
> > haven't come across this before.
> >
> > I have Monday free Manny, can I give you a buzz then?..
> hopefully we'll
> > get a scenario where the popping actually occurs.
> >
> > Adam
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Manny Papamanos <mpapama@Softimage.COM>
> > Date: Friday, October 19, 2007 8:45 am
> > Subject: RE: xsi 6.x and envelopes ( severe issue)
> > To: XSI@Softimage.COM
> >
> > > Adam, you indicated "I wonder if it's related to the fact that
> > > as of 6.0
> > > and later, in order to reliably key a character using bone
> > > hierarchies,I need to use autokey".
> > > Adam, there shouldn't be a need to animate in "auto", I
> > > personally hate
> > > using "auto key" and you are not the first to tell me this. The
> > > poppingprobably occurs because the ik/fk slider may be set to
> > > the ik side and
> > > you are animating the arms in fk forcing the chain to "reset"
> > > itself to
> > > the res plain. I'd like to take a closer look and put an end
> to this
> > > issue once and for all, can you call me at support.
> > > Also, from my tests, this can be resolved by selecting all
> bones with
> > > the "bones" filter, click ctrl+r and set the multi-ppg
> slider to
> > > the FK
> > > side.
> > >
> > >
> > > Manny Papamanos
> > > XSI SPECIALIST AT SOFTIMAGE HEADQUARTERS
> > > www.finalgathering.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-xsi@Softimage.COM [mailto:owner-xsi@Softimage.COM]
> > > On Behalf
> > > Of Julien Stiegler
> > > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 5:57 AM
> > > To: XSI@Softimage.COM
> > > Subject: Re: xsi 6.x and envelopes ( severe issue)
> > >
> > > I wonder if this problem with soft IK is related
> > >
> > > http://www.xsi-blog.com/archives/109
> > >
> > > Fernando Navarro wrote:
> > >
> > > >  Not sure if it's related but I have issues with custom
> > > operators>being evaluated but not updating (or wrongly updating)
> > > the geometry.
> > > >Reading a scene containing these operators can reproduce it 90%
> > > of the
> > > >times. This is something that happens in 6.x but not in 5.11.
> > > It has
> > > >been reported and probably will know something in a few days.
> > > >
> > > >  Cheers
> > > >     Fernando
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On 10/19/07, Bradley Gabe <withanar@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>I've finished many envelopes in 6.02 and haven't
> experienced the
> > > issues you
> > > >>are talking about. Just thinking about it a bit, the bahvior
> > > you are
> > > >>describing is what happens if your envelope data gets
> > > randomized where
> > > >>vertex points are no longer associated with their proper
> > > deformers or
> > > static
> > > >>kinestates. I *have* seen this behavior happen when
> attempting to
> > > directly
> > > >>copy envelope weight arrays from one rig to another using
> the Object
> > > Model.
> > > >>
> > > >>-Brad
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>On 10/18/07, Adam Sale <adamsale@shaw.ca> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>>anyone had any bizarre envelope behavior with xsi 6.02?
> > > >>>at odd times, when i open a scene with an enveloped
> > > character, and
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>manipulate the envelope
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>>by rotating bones, or moving an effector or control, the
> envelope> > goes
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>ballistic. I mean really bad.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>>I've never seen this behavior in ANY version of XSI prior to
> > > 6. Its
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>something completely new in my experience..
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>>I wonder if its related to the fact that as of 6.0 and
> later, in
> > > order to
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>reliably key a character using bone hierarchies, I need to use
> > > autokey. If I
> > > >>try to pose a character first and then key after the pose is
> > > finished,often
> > > >>times, the bones, pop, or jump to unpredictable locations or
> > > angles..>>
> > > >>
> > > >>>Something recursive has crept into the chain tools in XSI,
> > > and I
> > > think as
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>a software whose strength lies in these areas, they absolutely
> > > need to
> > > be
> > > >>addressed in very short order...
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>>Its driving me crazy...
> > > >>>
> > > >>>not only  limited to any rig I've made..
> > > >>>happens to jaiqua and other rigs as well.
> > > >>>and doesn't happen every time.. just every now and then.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>anyone else come across this?
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Adam
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
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