I'm mostly an XSI guy, but I find all I need to be happy when
switching between XSI and Maya is to set Mouse Mapping to "alternate".
That's all you truly need, imho.
Oh, and to ease some frustration in Maya I remapped S to K. Can't
stand to be setting keys on all parame.. *cough*.. "channels."
-- Alan
On Feb 1, 2008 11:37 AM, Gene Crucean <emailgeneonthelist(at)gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry Joey I should have taken more time to respond to your post.
>
>
>
> 1. The XSI interaction model, as a whole, is far better for XSI than
> attempting to apply someone else's interaction model on top of XSI.
> This isn't exactly my point. I don't think XSI should implement a hotbox,
> marking menu's and all that. Just make it (navigation and hotkeys) a little
> more standard, that's all.
>
>
>
> 2. After just barely 5 years on Soft3D, for nearly 8 years I tried to
> shake ZOP on Maya, I just couldn't do it. The ALT-Key navigation system
> on Maya just didn't cut it. It just wasn't natural. Most importantly
> their system made it very difficult on people with wheel mice, zoom and
> orbit were always a a hairs hit away from being right on cue when you
> pressed the buttons, too many different mouse button combinations for
> something that should be really simple, and they don't make mice the way
> the used to(sans wheel), which is what they designed the nav keys for in
> Maya back in 96 on SGI. Without even considering the 1-2 years overlap
> where I was using Soft3D and Maya simultaneously, six years later I was
> still habitually, and erroneously, hit ZOP in Maya for navigation. I
> took that as a signal that the ALT key just wasn't as comfortable a fit.
> It wasn't until Maya ended up on Windows did they correct a major flaw
> with the ALT mouse worklfow where they assigned dolly to ALT-RMB.
> They couldn't do this on SGI, this was bound to a special XWindows
> command within Irix. But by the time I moved to PC about 3 years ago,
> Maya on Win vs XSI on Win.....well ....you be the judge of that.
> All I get from this is the old dog, not willing to learn new things vibe and
> that you had a hard time re-learning a new method, WHICH is why XSI now
> feels more natural to you.
>
>
>
> 3. The ALT Nav system on Maya also limited finer control, the mouse
> buttons were taken up with Pan, Dolly, Orbit. Zoom in Maya was embedded
> into the interface for the Camera's Attributes under Focal Length. In
> XSI it is exposed under Z. It was an extra step any time you wanted to
> limit Orbit to X, Y, or Z, slow Dolly vs Fast Dolly, etc. Roll was two
> tiers down under the viewport View command. On XSI, its just one key
> press, L.
> I'm not really sure where you are going with this.
>
>
>
> 4. For selections Spacebar,T,E,U is a lot more efficient than Q and a
> visual hunt for the right Component icon. You could assign any of these
> to keys which I did, but you shouldn't have to do this.
> Why is it more efficient? On my setup I use U, I, T for components. I don't
> have to hunt for anything.
>
>
>
> 5. For transforms, there is Maya's WER(move,rotate,scale) and Soft's
> VCX(move, rotate scale). I always liked the fact that Space(select) was
> closer to VCX in Soft. In Maya it was nerve wracking to no absolute end
> why the heck did they assign Scale to R? Duh?
> I literally have a finger on Q at all times. My Q is your spacebar and
> believe me there is nothing faster than pushing my finger down. I'm not
> saying my way is better... but I am saying this comment is just a personal
> preference.
>
> R as scale. Why is that weird again?
>
>
> 6. Hotbox and Marking menus? What can I say? Theyre both wonderful and a
> real headache at the same time. Theyre fast and elegant, but there's
> nothing more absolutely frustrating than to use a stroke on the HotBox
> because you used it as a Marking menu, and now your current view has
> disappeared because it been replaced with a new view. Admittedly the
> marking menus are faster, but only if your scene is simple and not as
> cluttered, if you have a real heavy scene, marking menus can be a real pain.
> Why are we talking about hotbox's and marking menu's?
>
>
> 7. Manipulators, that was new to 3D, and quite revolutionary. But just
> about every app implements that now, it's no longer an issue.
> And manipulators?
>
>
> 8. Middle Click. Absolutely nothing like it Maya's arsenal. Not even the
> nonsacred tool(Y) or repeat key(G) come close.
> Completely agree. And I use it constantly with my setup. Why would this have
> to change though?
>
>
> These are just interaction issues. I set up Max to behave like Soft
> once, got it pretty close. It was impossible to reengineer Maya's
> interface close enough to Soft to make it worthwhile. You could do this
> with Max. Frankly I don't buy the myth that Soft3D's mindset is old or
> out of date. It was good, clean, efficient, and didn't place things in
> conflict with each other. It exposed almost everything you needed for
> selection and navigation right on the keyboard. If that interaction
> model is bad, then I'll take bad.
> To be completely clear, my point isn't that the Soft3D's mindset
> (specifically navigation and hotkeys) are old (which they are. Directly
> pulled from Soft3D) or even bad for that matter. Bad for me, but maybe not
> bad for everyone. My point is that mayyyyybe it's better to just use a more
> standard set of hotkeys and navigation as the default, thus helping the
> majority of the industry feel a little more at home when they jump in.
>
> Like I said earlier, I think the strongest point to use the default XSI way
> now is because the majority of XSI users use it.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 1, 2008 at 1:08 PM, Gene Crucean <emailgeneonthelist(at)gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > So, you guys really have no reason why you use it other than you are used
> to it? Honestly I just want to know WHY you guys use it.
> >
> > Joey, your entire post was made up of personal preferences and what you
> are used to. Not to mention got pretty off topic. I appreciate you taking
> your time though.
> >
> >
> > >Is it really worth forcing all of their current users conform to a setup
> that most are not comfortable with?
> >
> > I think in the long run... yes. But you see, you just touched on a double
> edged sword and contradicted yourself in the same post. You ask if it's
> worth it to conform most current users, but then say "Does the 1 second
> required to move a finger across the keyboard really cut into your
> productivity?" Hmm interesting.
> >
> > So here is another branch off of this topic... user base. Do you want to
> make the small XSI user base conform? Or make the entire rest of the
> industry conform? The numbers speak for themselves. Just sayin.
> >
> > C'mon Kim, you can do better than that. Hotkeys have nothing to do with
> what you are saying. If we were talking about a hotbox, then I would agree.
> >
> > Bernard, I agree. But that's a preference again with no meat. I like meat
> and potatoes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 1, 2008 at 12:23 PM, Juan Brockhaus <juanb(at)the-mill.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > I actually prefer vanilla ice cream to chocolate.
> > > just my 2 cents.
> > >
> > > Juan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ponthieux, Joey wrote:
> > > > You asked.....
> > > >
> > > > 1. The XSI interaction model, as a whole, is far better for XSI than
> > > > attempting to apply someone else's interaction model on top of XSI.
> > > >
> > > > 2. After just barely 5 years on Soft3D, for nearly 8 years I tried to
> > > > shake ZOP on Maya, I just couldn't do it. The ALT-Key navigation
> system
> > > > on Maya just didn't cut it. It just wasn't natural. Most importantly
> > > > their system made it very difficult on people with wheel mice, zoom
> and
> > > > orbit were always a a hairs hit away from being right on cue when you
> > > > pressed the buttons, too many different mouse button combinations for
> > > > something that should be really simple, and they don't make mice the
> way
> > > > the used to(sans wheel), which is what they designed the nav keys for
> in
> > > > Maya back in 96 on SGI. Without even considering the 1-2 years overlap
> > > > where I was using Soft3D and Maya simultaneously, six years later I
> was
> > > > still habitually, and erroneously, hit ZOP in Maya for navigation. I
> > > > took that as a signal that the ALT key just wasn't as comfortable a
> fit.
> > > > It wasn't until Maya ended up on Windows did they correct a major
> flaw
> > > > with the ALT mouse worklfow where they assigned dolly to ALT-RMB.
> > > > They couldn't do this on SGI, this was bound to a special XWindows
> > > > command within Irix. But by the time I moved to PC about 3 years ago,
> > > > Maya on Win vs XSI on Win.....well ....you be the judge of that.
> > > >
> > > > 3. The ALT Nav system on Maya also limited finer control, the mouse
> > > > buttons were taken up with Pan, Dolly, Orbit. Zoom in Maya was
> embedded
> > > > into the interface for the Camera's Attributes under Focal Length. In
> > > > XSI it is exposed under Z. It was an extra step any time you wanted to
> > > > limit Orbit to X, Y, or Z, slow Dolly vs Fast Dolly, etc. Roll was two
> > > > tiers down under the viewport View command. On XSI, its just one key
> > > > press, L.
> > > >
> > > > 4. For selections Spacebar,T,E,U is a lot more efficient than Q and a
> > > > visual hunt for the right Component icon. You could assign any of
> these
> > > > to keys which I did, but you shouldn't have to do this.
> > > >
> > > > 5. For transforms, there is Maya's WER(move,rotate,scale) and Soft's
> > > > VCX(move, rotate scale). I always liked the fact that Space(select)
> was
> > > > closer to VCX in Soft. In Maya it was nerve wracking to no absolute
> end
> > > > why the heck did they assign Scale to R? Duh?
> > > >
> > > > 6. Hotbox and Marking menus? What can I say? Theyre both wonderful and
> a
> > > > real headache at the same time. Theyre fast and elegant, but there's
> > > > nothing more absolutely frustrating than to use a stroke on the HotBox
> > > > because you used it as a Marking menu, and now your current view has
> > > > disappeared because it been replaced with a new view. Admittedly the
> > > > marking menus are faster, but only if your scene is simple and not as
> > > > cluttered, if you have a real heavy scene, marking menus can be a real
> pain.
> > > >
> > > > 7. Manipulators, that was new to 3D, and quite revolutionary. But just
> > > > about every app implements that now, it's no longer an issue.
> > > >
> > > > 8. Middle Click. Absolutely nothing like it Maya's arsenal. Not even
> the
> > > > nonsacred tool(Y) or repeat key(G) come close.
> > > >
> > > > These are just interaction issues. I set up Max to behave like Soft
> > > > once, got it pretty close. It was impossible to reengineer Maya's
> > > > interface close enough to Soft to make it worthwhile. You could do
> this
> > > > with Max. Frankly I don't buy the myth that Soft3D's mindset is old or
> > > > out of date. It was good, clean, efficient, and didn't place things in
> > > > conflict with each other. It exposed almost everything you needed for
> > > > selection and navigation right on the keyboard. If that interaction
> > > > model is bad, then I'll take bad.
> > > >
> > > > Joey Ponthieux
> > > > NCI Information Systems Inc.
> > > > NASA Langley Research Center
> > > > ____________________________________________________________
> > > > Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and
> > > > do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Gene Crucean wrote:
> > > >> Can I ask why you old school Soft users think the native interaction
> > > >> model is better than every other piece of software out there that all
> > > >> relatively mimics the same qwerty setup?
> > > >>
> > > >> I'm looking for solid reasons why it's /better/. Is it faster because
> > > >> you guys are so hardcore that you don't even use a mouse... therefore
> > > >> freeing up your right hand for O,P usage? ;)
> > > >>
> > > >> I'm calling you guys out. XSI dragging along the old Soft mindset
> just
> > > >> further alienates potential users from hopping on board. IMO, SI
> would
> > > >> be better off in the long run if in V7 they just dropped it and kept
> > > >> the qwerty setup as default. Maybe drop it completely from the
> > > >> software but offer the keymap as a download from the site... at least
> > > >> until the "old dogs" retire.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> $0.02 ching ching
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Fri, Feb 1, 2008 at 9:42 AM, Julien Stiegler
> > > >> <julien.stiegler(at)free.fr <mailto:julien.stiegler(at)free.fr>> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Hey eric,
> > > >>
> > > >> it's a great initiative to host tested/working/quality scripts
> and
> > > >> plugins on
> > > >> your site.
> > > >> What about contacting ALL the xsi addons authors and ask them the
> > > >> permissions to
> > > >> host it on your site ?
> > > >> I have a good collection of them but the authors still need to be
> > > >> contacted for
> > > >> permissions ....
> > > >>
> > > >> regards
> > > >>
> > > >> Selon Eric Thivierge <eric(at)xsidatabase.com
> > > >> <mailto:eric(at)xsidatabase.com>>:
> > > >>
> > > >> > Well Kim,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > It's a community based site. I don't script too well myself so
> it's
> > > >> > pretty much up to the others on the list and in the community
> to put
> > > >> > some things on the site. The site is for hosting the files of
> > > >> various
> > > >> > resources to get rid of the horrible "File not found" errors.
> So I
> > > >> > counter your comment with, "Shouldn't YOU put some scripts in
> > > >> it?" :)
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Cheers Kim. Hope all is well.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Thanks,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Eric Thivierge, XSI Database Admin
> > > >> > www.xsidatabase.com <http://www.xsidatabase.com>
> > > >> > eric(at)xsidatabase.com <mailto:eric(at)xsidatabase.com>
> > > >> > Forum Username: EricTRocks
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > kim aldis wrote:
> > > >> > > Shouldn't you put some scripts into it? ;-)
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> > >> From: owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM
> > > >> <mailto:owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM> [mailto:owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM
> > > >> <mailto:owner-xsi(at)Softimage.COM>] On
> > > >> > >> Behalf Of Eric Thivierge
> > > >> > >> Sent: 01 February 2008 03:32
> > > >> > >> To: XSI(at)Softimage.COM <mailto:XSI(at)Softimage.COM>
> > > >> > >> Subject: Re: Coming back from Maya
> > > >> > >>
> > > >> > >> Right on Marcus! Don't forget we have a new scripts section
> > > >> as well.
> > > >> > >>
> > > >> > >>
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > ---
> > > >> > > Unsubscribe? Mail Majordomo(at)Softimage.COM
> > > >> <mailto:Majordomo(at)Softimage.COM> with the following text in body:
> > > >> > > unsubscribe xsi
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > ---
> > > >> > Unsubscribe? Mail Majordomo(at)Softimage.COM
> > > >> <mailto:Majordomo(at)Softimage.COM> with the following text in body:
> > > >> > unsubscribe xsi
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Julien Stiegler
> > > >> Réalisation de film d'animation, vidéo interactive,
> > > >> pré-production, post-prodution.
> > > >> http://animatic.no-ip.com/cv.html
> > > >>
> > > >> ---
> > > >> Unsubscribe? Mail Majordomo(at)Softimage.COM
> > > >> <mailto:Majordomo(at)Softimage.COM> with the following text in body:
> > > >> unsubscribe xsi
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Unsubscribe? Mail Majordomo(at)Softimage.COM with the following text in
> body:
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> > >
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>
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